Alex Daniels, other Cinci players, leave mtg with ND coach early, rip Kelly

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I've read this story before, and I'll read it again next year. Different team, different city, different guys.
 


At least, Kelly will be leaving the Cincinnati football players with some valuable life lessons;

1. Don't ever honor your commitments!!!

2. Money is more important than INTEGRITY:pig:!!!
 

The players need to put his shoes on and they would all do the same thing. Feelings will always get hurt, but they will all be over it soon.

Fact is that all programs, like jobs, are not created equal. Promotions happen all the time in the workplace.
 


Alex's stats at Cincin

Looks like Alex developed his potential and turned into a pretty good player. Good for him.

Tackles Sacks Pass Defense
GP-GS Solo Ast Total TFL-Yds No-Yds BU PD Qbh

4 Daniels, Alex 12-11 17 33 50 8.0 - 55 6.5 - 53 1 1 3
 

Whats so difficult about scheduling a meeting and contacting ND just prior to the meeting that you accept the offer, then go in and notify the team. All it takes is a little common sense.
 

Bisker82 said:
At least, Kelly will be leaving the Cincinnati football players with some valuable life lessons;

1. Don't ever honor your commitments!!!

2. Money is more important than INTEGRITY:pig:!!!
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This is laughable. Notre Dame is the dream job for lots of coaches--what's wrong with a guy looking to move up the ladder. We all hope for the same thing in our careers. It would be very unrealistic to expect a top notch coach to stay at Cinci for their whole career.
 

skoalvikings said:
This is laughable. Notre Dame is the dream job for lots of coaches--what's wrong with a guy looking to move up the ladder. We all hope for the same thing in our careers. It would be very unrealistic to expect a top notch coach to stay at Cinci for their whole career.
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I'm not begrudging him taking the job, but the way it was handled is what is laughable and lacks integrity.

First of all, he promised the Cincy players they would be the first to know; they were not (lack of integrity).

Second, he is abandoning the team right before what could agruably be the most important game in the school's history (lack of commitment).

Just because this happens all of the time does not make it right.
 



skoalvikings said:
This is laughable. Notre Dame is the dream job for lots of coaches--what's wrong with a guy looking to move up the ladder. We all hope for the same thing in our careers. It would be very unrealistic to expect a top notch coach to stay at Cinci for their whole career.
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Exactly. Not only that, all of these players who are pissed would all have left school early and turned their backs on the Bearcats had the NFL come calling. The players sound selfish and bitter. There's no doubt placed in the same spot, those kids would be GONE.

I mean this WR Mardy Gilyard who was talking big and bad about Brian Kelly, is the same guy who kind of turned his back on his teammates by skipping classes last year and missing the season because he couldn't remain eligible, right? Do you think if the NFL scouts had told him that he'd be a first round pick that he'd have stuck around? No chance. But, he comes out hollering "Look at me! Look at me!"
 

This is one of those interesting cases where I can't really blame either side. For Kelly, he jumps at an opportunity that most coaches in college football would dream about having. And I really can't blame him for that. On the other hand, I can't really blame Cincinnati's players for being upset either. They feel like he turned his back on them, which is also understandable. It's unfortunate that there are hurt feelings in this case, but both sides have ample reason for their actions here.
 

Integrity is a made up, subjective term. Money is real and fuels how you are able to live your life. Money is most certainly more important than integrity. Cincy has zero chance at keeping coaches from leaving for any major conference job(I refuse to recognize the Big East as a major football conference. They are an ESPN construct)...much less Notre Dame.
 

Great point I heard someone make about this situation - in some parallel universe, if someone told Marty Gilyard or Tony Pike they would be the #1 overall pick in the NFL Draft, but only if they skipped out on the bowl game and said yes right now. Furthermore, the opportunity would be lost and they would not get another chance if they played in the game, would they bail on Cincinnati? Can't say for sure, but my guess would be most players would take the prestige and money that comes with being that #1 pick over playing in the Sugar Bowl.

NOTE: Saw tjgopher says something similar. As he has it phrased, these kids would definitely leave early for the NFL. I absolutely agree with that, but think that's not a perfect comparison. Leaving early for the NFL would still have these guys play in the bowl game. In the case of Notre Dame, Coach Kelly had to make a decision prior to the bowl game or miss the opportunity. So I think you need to create a bit of a hypothetical situation where a player has to choose between the NFL and the bowl game, because I'm sure that's the position Coach Kelly was put in by Notre Dame.
 



When people change jobs, it can get messy sometimes. It is a fact of life in all almost all occupations.

Doesn't mean Brian Kelly lacks integrity or a bad guy. Just means he was put in a spot that made him look bad. You just have to know that if you're a football coach wanting to move up the food chain that at some point you'll probably go through a messy job change or two.

Let's not forget that Kelly got his job because Mark Dantonio walked out on Cincy before its bowl game in 2006. Whomever takes Kelly's spot is going to get the job because Kelly left before a bowl game. And whomever takes Kelly's replacement's job will likely get the job because Kelly's replacement left early. The timing sucks, but that's how the game is played this time of year. Particularly at a place like Cincy.
 

GopherHomer said:
Integrity is a made up, subjective term. Money is real and fuels how you are able to live your life. Money is most certainly more important than integrity. Cincy has zero chance at keeping coaches from leaving for any major conference job(I refuse to recognize the Big East as a major football conference. They are an ESPN construct)...much less Notre Dame.
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There have been examples of integrity throughout history. Referring to integrity as made up is ludicris. I guess you belive honor & respect are also made up terms. But I guess if you value money so much more above other values then they would seem like made up terms.
 

parkinglotgopher said:
Great point I heard someone make about this situation - in some parallel universe, if someone told Marty Gilyard or Tony Pike they would be the #1 overall pick in the NFL Draft, but only if they skipped out on the bowl game and said yes right now. Furthermore, the opportunity would be lost and they would not get another chance if they played in the game, would they bail on Cincinnati? Can't say for sure, but my guess would be most players would take the prestige and money that comes with being that #1 pick over playing in the Sugar Bowl.

NOTE: Saw tjgopher says something similar. As he has it phrased, these kids would definitely leave early for the NFL. I absolutely agree with that, but think that's not a perfect comparison. Leaving early for the NFL would still have these guys play in the bowl game. In the case of Notre Dame, Coach Kelly had to make a decision prior to the bowl game or miss the opportunity. So I think you need to create a bit of a hypothetical situation where a player has to choose between the NFL and the bowl game, because I'm sure that's the position Coach Kelly was put in by Notre Dame.
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I don't think you have to make the perfect comparison. You simply have to go from the perspective of when the job/opportunity comes open. It is irrelevant when you walk away from your team and move on. In other words, coaching opportunities come up at the end of the regular season. That's when a coach has to decide whether to move on or not. The NFL situation comes up at the end of the bowl season. Guys make their choice then.

There's not a doubt in my mind that if these Cincy players were told last spring that the opportunity was there to get drafted in the first round, they'd have walked away then.

Alex Daniels? Are you kidding me? He'd have left for the NFL so fast the rubber would still be burning off of his tires. But, he's a guy shouting out loud and acting all put out. Uh, hey Alex, you realize you turned your back on your former teammates in Minnesota with your choices, right?? That's much, much worse than anything Brian Kelly did in accepting the ND job. Yet, here's Alex Freaking Daniels acting like Brian Kelly just burned his house down.
 

I think the ONLY thing Cincy players can realistically be upset about is that they found out about it from an ESPN ticker or other reports before Kelly told them in person.

At the same time, I'm sure that would have been difficult for Kelly to do. I'm sure Notre Dame really wouldn't accept a "hold on, let me get back to you on Thursday night with a decision." Once Kelly tells Notre Dame he'll take the job, all it takes is a quick leak from a source and the cat's out of the bag. Don't know what Kelly could have done differently other than to not say a thing about his future to ANYBODY until last night. Easier said than done.
 

Loyalty? Integrity?

Lets remember that in sports there words mean very little. Should a coach take a shot at a better job where he makes more money? Should a school let a coach go before his contract is up if things are not going as well as hoped?

Loyalty and integrity in sports is iffy at best on both sides of the table in Pro or College sports.
 

Considering Kelly was a coach willing to take a chance taking Alex into his program, I would think Alex would be a little more willing to cut the guy some slack. I'm sure there were other coaches willing to do so, but as the one who did, Daniels should be thankful to have the opportunity to come back to his home state and get to play for a D1 program.
 

Alex Daniels and three others "turned their backs" on the Gopher program when they decided to do something really stupid, thus getting themselves kicked off the team. I don't feel bad at all for him in this situation. He should just keep his mouth shut and be thankful he's still able to play football.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Alex Daniels and three others "turned their backs" on the Gopher program when they decided to do something really stupid, thus getting themselves kicked off the team. I don't feel bad at all for him in this situation. He should just keep his mouth shut and be thankful he's still able to play football.
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Exactly, Dom Jones wishes he was in Daniels' position. Shut up and count your blessings that ANY coach was willing to take you in after you almost went to prison.
 

skoalvikings said:
This is laughable. Notre Dame is the dream job for lots of coaches--what's wrong with a guy looking to move up the ladder. We all hope for the same thing in our careers. It would be very unrealistic to expect a top notch coach to stay at Cinci for their whole career.
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The way he did it is what's wrong. Don't tell your players you're not going anywhere and then stab them in the back...exact same thing Holtz did when leaving the U.
 

The proper comparison for Alex Daniels would be, would he skip taking pictures on his cell phone of his buds having sex with a slobbering drunken co-ed to go the NFL. Obviously would have been a tough call for Alex.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The players need to put his shoes on and they would all do the same thing. Feelings will always get hurt, but they will all be over it soon.

Fact is that all programs, like jobs, are not created equal. Promotions happen all the time in the workplace.
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I don't think the issue for the Cincinatti players was just that Kelly was leaving. If you read the article Kelly promised his players they would be the first to know about his plans and it turns out they were the last to know. That is a huge slap in the face to players who have dedicated their careers to playing for a specific coach (in this case Brian Kelly). No class.
 

GopherHomer said:
Integrity is a made up, subjective term. Money is real and fuels how you are able to live your life. Money is most certainly more important than integrity. Cincy has zero chance at keeping coaches from leaving for any major conference job(I refuse to recognize the Big East as a major football conference. They are an ESPN construct)...much less Notre Dame.
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For the sake of this post I'll take your money is more important than integrity statement as being serious rather than a wild statement made for the sake of shock value. Truth is, money is never more important than integrity. The kicker is that each individual must define integrity and then live up to it. To let others define you shows a decided lack of character. For example, Kelly may feel integrity is doing all he can to provide the most for his family, in which case money and integrity join forces. He may be doing what both institutions have asked, for the sake of making a quick cut and moving forward. In any event, I have yet to see a situation in which a person has compromised his or her integrity for the sake of money and been happy about it down the road.
 

There is a contradiction though...

Didn't Kelly emphatically tell his players about staying in Cinci? That is the only area where I think Brian Kelly needs to acknowledge some blame. All the players knew immediately that ND was interested and he didn't have to say anything. Kelly only told the players what they wanted to hear so that he didn't have an added distraction prior to signing with ND.

I believe it takes more integrity to tell your players that ND was his dream job and he would listen if they called. My point is, the guy didn't have to lie because we know from how quickly the deal was done that he was interested all along. The players DO deserve an apology from him on that level. I would have walked out on him too, business or personal..
 

ProGopher said:
Didn't Kelly emphatically tell his players about staying in Cinci? That is the only area where I think Brian Kelly needs to acknowledge some blame. All the players knew immediately that ND was interested and he didn't have to say anything. Kelly only told the players what they wanted to hear so that he didn't have an added distraction prior to signing with ND.

I believe it takes more integrity to tell your players that ND was his dream job and he would listen if they called. My point is, the guy didn't have to lie because we know from how quickly the deal was done that he was interested all along. The players DO deserve an apology from him on that level. I would have walked out on him too, business or personal..
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I don't think he "emphatically" told anyone he was staying in Cincinnati. No one but the players themselves know exactly what he said, but, for example, all Tony Pike related was that Kelly said he "liked it in Cincinnati." That is probably true. But that is not contradictory with him going to Notre Dame. Hell, I like it in Minneapolis. But if somebody offered to double my salary if I had to move to Madison, I'd be out of here so fast it'd make my co-workers' heads spin.
 

ProGopher said:
Didn't Kelly emphatically tell his players about staying in Cinci? That is the only area where I think Brian Kelly needs to acknowledge some blame. All the players knew immediately that ND was interested and he didn't have to say anything. Kelly only told the players what they wanted to hear so that he didn't have an added distraction prior to signing with ND.

I believe it takes more integrity to tell your players that ND was his dream job and he would listen if they called. My point is, the guy didn't have to lie because we know from how quickly the deal was done that he was interested all along. The players DO deserve an apology from him on that level. I would have walked out on him too, business or personal..
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I don't know what the truth is, but Kelly today emphatically said that he kept his players updated. He said he told them he interviewed at Notre Dame. He said he later told them he was considering the job. He said he told them last night that he had accepted the job. He said he couldn't control leaks from ND. He said it was literally only an hour after he officially accepted the job to the time he met with the team last night.

If what he says is true, I'd suggest he did this with as much integrity as the situation could dictate.
 

Bisker82 said:
I'm not begrudging him taking the job, but the way it was handled is what is laughable and lacks integrity.

First of all, he promised the Cincy players they would be the first to know; they were not (lack of integrity).

Second, he is abandoning the team right before what could agruably be the most important game in the school's history (lack of commitment).

Just because this happens all of the time does not make it right.
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I agree, especially since integrity is what is supposed to separate ND from other institutions. There is no reason ND couldn't have waited till after the bowl game. They, after all turned down a potential bowl invite. Recruiting would not be an issue for ND both because of who they hired, and the reality that many youth grow up hearing that ND is the end all and be all from their parish.

I won't even open up the can of worms that players should be able to transfer freely, or should be paid a stipend.......
 

STPGopher said:
I agree, especially since integrity is what is supposed to separate ND from other institutions. There is no reason ND couldn't have waited till after the bowl game. They, after all turned down a potential bowl invite. Recruiting would not be an issue for ND both because of who they hired, and the reality that many youth grow up hearing that ND is the end all and be all from their parish.

I won't even open up the can of worms that players should be able to transfer freely, or should be paid a stipend.......
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at least that is what notre lame tells all of us over and over and over again. :rolleyes:
 

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