Afghanistan

kg21

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I just want to be sure I have this right. We are doing well with covid, we are doing well at the border, and we did well in Afghanistan.

Where a year ago, we were a mess at this. This is correct, right? I can't keep up, but I think I have this correct.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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About as creative as always with you Howie. You have been proven time and again as the biggest hypocrite on this board and to be flat out dishonest --- but if you call me a fraud you get support from the wackos. Keep it up, it is all you have.
FRAUD 😜😜😜😜😜😜
#NotHowie
 

Wally

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Your cause and effect thinking is atrocious. If we wouldn't have evacuated most of our troops and abandoned our most strategic position while allowing the Taliban to march through Afghanistan to Kabul then we wouldn't have been putting more troops in harms way - we would have been putting less troops in harms way. And citizens. And allies. :rolleyes:
Only in your fantasy.

We cannot know what would have happened.
 

GopherJake

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The fact remains that we let them advance for months taking control of most of the Country on their way to Kabul. A big part of the problem was what was allowed and ignored for the months leading up to this - all while we reduced our troop number. If we wouldn't have allowed that, not reduced our troop number until the end, not given up our AFB, etc. the people could have been removed and then our troops could have been removed last. Air support would have been more than capable of protecting us at that point. Again, don't listen to me --- listen to military experts and our biggest allies (UK for example), or listen to politicians and those on a message board - your choice.
I haven't made up my mind on this, as I don't have enough information. It most certainly looked like a complete cluster fuck, I'll give you that - and I called it as such. And there had to be some better way to do it. But, as stated above by someone else, I think you - and all the other righties here - are dramatically oversimplifying. You didn't really address my question head-on.

I believe there was a severe miscalculation in the protection that would be offered by the Afghan army. I would be interested in something interesting and informative that you could point me to that summarizes - without politicization. Something based upon military expert opinions. I'll admit, I haven't searched much to date. I tire of the @bga1's of the world spewing their partisan garbage. This is a complex situation, I don't think we could have gotten out of there without some collateral damage. But I'm willing to listen to arguments to the contrary from smart people, who would know.
 

MplsGopher

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And there had to be some better way to do it.
No.

Just because a better outcome can be imagined, doesn't mean there was some way to get to it.


But I'm willing to listen to arguments to the contrary from smart people, who would know.
Odd how we don't have any such arguments being made from former military commanders about how if x,y,z had been done, a significantly better outcome would have been achieved.

Almost like ...... none of the decisions were good and the situation was not as simple as people want to pretend it was! Weird ....
 


KillerGopherFan

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According to Mayorkas’s Senate testimony yesterday, of the 60K+ brought to the US from Afghanistan, about 7% were American citizens, 6% were legal residents, and 3% were SIVs (who helped the US).

WTF? Who are the rest?
 


kg21

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They're called refugees, you Florida hick.
They are called dummies, because they will be dominated by old, white, angry, white supremacists. Their descendants will be so screwed for awhile.

They can't make it here. They can't have a life here. Why are they so dumb not to realize this?
 

Wally

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They are called dummies, because they will be dominated by old, white, angry, white supremacists. Their descendants will be so screwed for awhile.

They can't make it here. They can't have a life here. Why are they so dumb not to realize this?
No one is saying the US isn't better than Afganistan or they wouldn't have a better chance here. Trying to make the US better and reduce racism doesn't mean what you implied. Your argument just shows how simple minded you are.
 



Spoofin

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According to Mayorkas’s Senate testimony yesterday, of the 60K+ brought to the US from Afghanistan, about 7% were American citizens, 6% were legal residents, and 3% were SIVs (who helped the US).

WTF? Who are the rest?
Extraordinary Success
 


KillerGopherFan

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howeda7

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According to Mayorkas’s Senate testimony yesterday, of the 60K+ brought to the US from Afghanistan, about 7% were American citizens, 6% were legal residents, and 3% were SIVs (who helped the US).

WTF? Who are the rest?
Newly registered voters in FL, GA and TX. Duh.
 


KillerGopherFan

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But howie @howeda7 said that Fox News would find the “one” left behind and interview them.

Great prognostication again howie. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

“just a bad week”, right?

 

kg21

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No one is saying the US isn't better than Afganistan or they wouldn't have a better chance here. Trying to make the US better and reduce racism doesn't mean what you implied. Your argument just shows how simple minded you are.
What racism?
 

kg21

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Again, China is now getting all of Afghanistans rare earth minerals.

There was a reason Joe wanted out. He owes China.

Nothing is ever as it appears.
 
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Spoofin

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But howie @howeda7 said that Fox News would find the “one” left behind and interview them.

Great prognostication again howie. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

“just a bad week”, right?

What are you talking about. Joe "turned the page" on Afghanistan already. Stranded Americans and is moving on. Off. The. Charts.
 


Go4Broke

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Pentagon Chiefs Aim Jabs at Trump, Biden Over Afghan Collapse

The top U.S. military leaders pointed rare criticism at key decisions by Presidents Donald Trump and Joe Biden which they said undermined Afghanistan’s military and made it harder for American troops to remain as the nation’s government collapsed.

- Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told the Senate Armed Services Committee Tuesday that Trump’s 2020 peace deal with the Taliban had a “demoralizing effect on Afghan soldiers” that U.S. military officials didn’t fully realize.

- General Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he wouldn’t advise announcing specific troop withdrawal deadlines, as both Trump and Biden did. “Two president in a row put dates on it,” Milley said. “My advice is don’t put specific dates. Make things conditions-based. That is how I’ve been trained over many, many years.”

In the most politically sensitive remarks of the hearing, two top commanders said their personal view was that 2,500 American troops should have stayed to bolster the Afghan government.

- General Milley
said: “My assessment was, back in the fall of ’20, and it remained consistent throughout, that we should keep a steady state of 2,500.

- The head of Central Command, General Kenneth McKenzie, testified that he believed 2,500 troops would be needed and that a full withdrawal would lead to a Taliban takeover. He wouldn’t say if he gave that advice directly to Biden, but suggested he made his views known. “I’ve stated consistently that my position was, if you go below 2,500, you’re going to look at a collapse of the Afghan military,” McKenzie said. “I did not foresee it to be days. I thought it would take months.”

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said in a tweet Tuesday that the generals’ testimony backed up Biden’s contention that the “consensus of top military advisors was 2500 troops staying meant escalation due to deal by the previous” administration.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ace-first-hearing-over-afghanistan-s-collapse
 

KillerGopherFan

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I never said "the" one. Are you saying Fox News didn't do that?
You said:

3B7B9E58-C02B-4A0F-AF3C-343A8C217F33.jpeg
You minimized the number that would be left behind, but if “one” was left behind, FNC would find them and do a week of specials on them.

There are a number of lies in your post. And now suggesting that you didn’t minimize it is another lie.

If you keep this up, you’ll sound just like your dear lefty leader (lick lick), who either is a bald faced liar to the American public or is senile or both. I’ll go with both.

BTW, are you suggesting that “the news” shouldn’t report on legitimate American citizens being left behind? Wow.
 
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howeda7

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You said:

View attachment 14582
You minimized the number that would be left behind, but if “one” was left behind, FNC would find them and do a week of specials on them.

There are a number of lies in your post. And now suggesting that you didn’t minimize it is another lie.

If you keep this up, you’ll sound just like your dear lefty leader (lick lick), who either is a bald faced liar to the American public or is senile or both. I’ll go with both.

BTW, are you suggesting that “the news” shouldn’t report on legitimate American citizens being left behind? Wow.
So you lied. I never said only one would be left or "the" one. Got it. Liar.
 

kg21

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So you lied. I never said only one would be left or "the" one. Got it. Liar.
You got liar in there twice. 20 more times today, and you have the guy you voted for.

Is being a liar a big deal all of sudden?
 

Wally

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In the most politically sensitive remarks of the hearing, two top commanders said their personal view was that 2,500 American troops should have stayed to bolster the Afghan government.

Which would have required us to continue arming and paying the salaries of the whole Afgan Army.

The arms dealers wet dream...
 



Wally

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We now know why Biden was in a hurry to Afghanistan

There was a moment during Tuesday’s Senate hearing on the withdrawal from Afghanistan when it became clear why President Joe Biden decided to withdraw troops from there as quickly as possible.

It happened when General Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, explained why he and the other chiefs – senior army, air force, navy and navy officers – all agreed that we have to step down by August. 31. The Doha agreement, which President Trump signed with the Taliban in early 2020 (without any involvement from the Afghan government), called for a total withdrawal of foreign forces. If the US troops had stayed beyond August, Milley said, the Taliban would have resumed fighting and, in order to avoid the attacks, “we would have needed 30,000 troops” and suffered “a lot. losses”.

 

Wally

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The collapse of the Afghan government and its security forces can be traced to a 2020 agreement between the Taliban and the Trump administration that promised a complete US troop withdrawal, senior Pentagon officials have told Congress.
Gen Frank McKenzie, the head of central command, told the House armed services committee that once the US troop presence was pushed below 2,500 as part of President Joe Biden’s decision in April to complete a total withdrawal by September, the unraveling of the US-backed Afghan government accelerated.

“The signing of the Doha agreement had a really pernicious effect on the government of Afghanistan and on its military, psychological more than anything else, but we set a date – certain for when we were going to leave and when they could expect all assistance to end,” McKenzie said.

 





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