Afghanistan

Pompous Elitist

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Chagrined on a deep level to see extremism take hold, once again. The evacuation of Kabul under duress, abandonment of Afghani allies reminds me of stories of the fall of Saigon and US abandonment of vietnamese allies. While messy and probably overdue this feels dishonorable. On a broader level it’s a human tragedy - difficult to imagine living in a theocratic Islamist hell. The afghanis don’t seem to want a better option and don’t want to fight. Hard to understand other than fear.

Discuss.

 

Random Gopher Fan

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Chagrined on a deep level to see extremism take hold, once again. The evacuation of Kabul under duress, abandonment of Afghani allies reminds me of stories of the fall of Saigon and US abandonment of vietnamese allies. While messy and probably overdue this feels dishonorable. On a broader level it’s a human tragedy - difficult to imagine living in a theocratic Islamist hell. The afghanis don’t seem to want a better option and don’t want to fight. Hard to understand other than fear.

Discuss.

Equating losing US lives with the word salad “low sustainable cost”
 

GopherJake

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Chagrined on a deep level to see extremism take hold, once again. The evacuation of Kabul under duress, abandonment of Afghani allies reminds me of stories of the fall of Saigon and US abandonment of vietnamese allies. While messy and probably overdue this feels dishonorable. On a broader level it’s a human tragedy - difficult to imagine living in a theocratic Islamist hell. The afghanis don’t seem to want a better option and don’t want to fight. Hard to understand other than fear.

Discuss.

On the daily "Start Here" ABC podcast, someone said "we can't want it more than they do." They knew this was coming. They didn't want it, so they got run over. Not our fault. We needed to leave.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Agree we shouldn’t be there for a number of reasons. However, sad to see a critical mass of Afghanis are not ready to step out of the Dark Ages with all the help (literally) in the world. This opportunity won’t come around again soon. There is something different and persistent about Islamic theocracies. The Taliban is on the extreme end of a historically-entrenched mass delusion with generally rigid rules and hash penalties for deviance (I can still say this in the US in 2021 - what a country). How to break that belief cycle?

Perhaps the less we enmesh ourselves in their affairs they will interfere less in ours. Fine, as long as we ignore the human rights abuses.
 

KillerGopherFan

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On the daily "Start Here" ABC podcast, someone said "we can't want it more than they do." They knew this was coming. They didn't want it, so they got run over. Not our fault. We needed to leave.
It’s not whether we needed to leave, but how.

We could’ve left a very small security force with air and technology support, and perhaps a very limited number of troops. We could’ve left during the winter when the Taliban beds down in Pakistan and doesn’t fight rather than the Taliban’s most strategically advantageous summer fighting period.

Biden and his administration are incompetent morons.
 


GopherJake

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It’s not whether we needed to leave, but how.

We could’ve left a very small security force with air and technology support, and perhaps a very limited number of troops. We could’ve left during the winter when the Taliban beds down in Pakistan and doesn’t fight rather than the Taliban’s most strategically advantageous summer fighting period.

Biden and his administration are incompetent morons.
Uh huh. Keeping people there is not leaving.
 

FormerFatOL

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This was never going to end any other way. Afghans have outlasted multiple empires over the millennia. That said, unlike GW's idiotic decision to nation build in Iraq, the original decision to send quick hitting special ops and Marine units into Afghanistan to track down Al Qaeda may have been solid. But GW, being a weak leader, let the generals and establishment push him into escalating the conflict, overthrowing the Taliban, and becoming an occupying army. Obama, being a new President, doubled down in his first term. This ending was inevitable.

What's happening now is just partisans arguing over the timing and methods of retreat.
 

saintpaulguy

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This was never going to end any other way. Afghans have outlasted multiple empires over the millennia. That said, unlike GW's idiotic decision to nation build in Iraq, the original decision to send quick hitting special ops and Marine units into Afghanistan to track down Al Qaeda may have been solid. But GW, being a weak leader, let the generals and establishment push him into escalating the conflict, overthrowing the Taliban, and becoming an occupying army. Obama, being a new President, doubled down in his first term. This ending was inevitable.

What's happening now is just partisans arguing over the timing and methods of retreat.
This. So very much this.
 

Wally

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Chagrined on a deep level to see extremism take hold, once again. The evacuation of Kabul under duress, abandonment of Afghani allies reminds me of stories of the fall of Saigon and US abandonment of vietnamese allies. While messy and probably overdue this feels dishonorable. On a broader level it’s a human tragedy - difficult to imagine living in a theocratic Islamist hell. The afghanis don’t seem to want a better option and don’t want to fight. Hard to understand other than fear.

Discuss.

Just long overdue.

We only delayed the inevitable. What a waste. Now tons of people who helped us will be summarily executed. Its sad and disturbing but we weren't winning anything there. I say let them all come to the US, its the least we can do.
 



FormerFatOL

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Just long overdue.

We only delayed the inevitable. What a waste. Now tons of people who helped us will be summarily executed. Its sad and disturbing but we weren't winning anything there. I say let them all come to the US, its the least we can do.

"All" can't come to the U.S., but key players that were allies should most definitely be allowed asylum just like loyal Vietnamese families. My long time barber/stylist is the child of a S. Vietnamese officer, one of many that came to the U.S. in the 1970s. A Marine friend of mine back in the day was the same. Great people.
 

Wally

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"All" can't come to the U.S., but key players that were allies should most definitely be allowed asylum just like loyal Vietnamese families. My long time barber/stylist is the child of a S. Vietnamese officer, one of many that came to the U.S. in the 1970s. A Marine friend of mine back in the day was the same. Great people.
All allied with us and all women and children can, easily. Way cheaper than that bs war
 

howeda7

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It’s not whether we needed to leave, but how.

We could’ve left a very small security force with air and technology support, and perhaps a very limited number of troops.
Then we have stay there forever. Unfortunately, this was going to happen whether we left now, a year from now or 10 years from now. You're incapable of taking an unbiased view on anything.
 

bga1

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Then we have stay there forever. Unfortunately, this was going to happen whether we left now, a year from now or 10 years from now.
We should have left a while ago. There are smart ways to exit and dumb ways. We obviously did it the dumb way or we wouldn't be sending 3000 troops back into Kabul.
 



MennoSota

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The most dishonorable thing is that women and children are left to be terrorized and turned into murderers under the demonic ideology of radical islam.
It would be better if these evil men had a millstone hung around their neck and be thrown into the sea than for them to abuse the women and children as they will now openly do.
 

Wally

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The most dishonorable thing is that women and children are left to be terrorized and turned into murderers under the demonic ideology of radical islam.
It would be better if these evil men had a millstone hung around their neck and be thrown into the sea than for them to abuse the women and children as they will now openly do.

Are you copying a heathen?

"All" can't come to the U.S., but key players that were allies should most definitely be allowed asylum just like loyal Vietnamese families. My long time barber/stylist is the child of a S. Vietnamese officer, one of many that came to the U.S. in the 1970s. A Marine friend of mine back in the day was the same. Great people.

All allied with us and all women and children can, easily. Way cheaper than that bs war
 




Spoofin

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Then we have stay there forever. Unfortunately, this was going to happen whether we left now, a year from now or 10 years from now. You're incapable of taking an unbiased view on anything.
This is dangerously close to “there was nothing he could have done”.
 

Section2

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Agree we shouldn’t be there for a number of reasons. However, sad to see a critical mass of Afghanis are not ready to step out of the Dark Ages with all the help (literally) in the world. This opportunity won’t come around again soon. There is something different and persistent about Islamic theocracies. The Taliban is on the extreme end of a historically-entrenched mass delusion with generally rigid rules and hash penalties for deviance (I can still say this in the US in 2021 - what a country). How to break that belief cycle?

Perhaps the less we enmesh ourselves in their affairs they will interfere less in ours. Fine, as long as we ignore the human rights abuses.
It’s none of our business how they live or what they believe. It’s not for you to break.
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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Chagrined on a deep level to see extremism take hold, once again. The evacuation of Kabul under duress, abandonment of Afghani allies reminds me of stories of the fall of Saigon and US abandonment of vietnamese allies. While messy and probably overdue this feels dishonorable. On a broader level it’s a human tragedy - difficult to imagine living in a theocratic Islamist hell. The afghanis don’t seem to want a better option and don’t want to fight. Hard to understand other than fear.

Discuss.


Look at Viet Nam now. Stable. Peaceful. They're our ally. We trade with them. Heck, people vacation there now. If we'd stayed in Viet Nam we'd still be at war.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Can't wait for China to move in.

If you want to stop China, occupying Afghanistan is not the answer. You hurt China economically. Look no further than what Trump did to them. Due to his policies their currency crashed, their stock market crashed, manufacturing fled out of China to neighboring countries, and new investment in China ground to a halt.
 

Wally

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I don't mean by force. Why not work with them? They both have similar interests
China and the Taliban?
Are you insane?
Taliban are desperate for anything right now that's it and why they talked to China. There are no similar interests between the two.

Ever heard of the Uighurs??
 

Wally

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If you want to stop China, occupying Afghanistan is not the answer. You hurt China economically. Look no further than what Trump did to them. Due to his policies their currency crashed, their stock market crashed, manufacturing fled out of China to neighboring countries, and new investment in China ground to a halt.
China is doing a good job hurting China. Delta is going f China good. Their largest port is mostly closed right now.
 

BarnBurner

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Joe’s too busy to deal with multiple crises. Vacation. Again.
 


stocker08

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lol at the righties now changing their tune to "we should have stayed!"

These dotards only real political stance is that whatever the democrats do....it is bad and wrong. Cheering on a political party like it's a sporting event. So sad and pathetic.
 

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Costa Rican Gopher

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I don’t see how people don’t recognize this. Covid was the most transparent move ever, and really their only move to play.

Start by understanding the Dems see Communist China as their ally in the fight against America.
 




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