Adam Rittenberg: How to get smart about B1G expansion

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Gotta say I really agree with the thoughts Rittenberg offers here. Even though I would like to see Iowa State and Pitt added as far as rivalries and locations, realistically, they would not seem to make sense with what the B1G Ten is trying to accomplish with there "brand" expansion.

Like Adam said, B1G Ten Football is already very popular, it is mostly about tryin to reach new markets and audicences to increase the brand value.
 

e.bigelow said:
Like Adam said, B1G Ten Football is already very popular, it is mostly about tryin to reach new markets and audicences to increase the brand value.
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"Try to think less like a fan and more like a businessperson." - Adam R.

These 2 quotes are exactly what's wrong with college football. The fact that population/demographics (tv contracts) would ever be more important than geographic proximity and natural (future) or existing rivalries shows exactly where college football has been going and will continue to head.

My question is - is it necessary? Do schools like Mich, OSU, Nebraska, PSU not already recruit in the south? Has our brand of football (style of play, rivalries born from geographic proximity and cultural similarities) not provided a strong national brand of football with loyal followers? Have college football games not been nearly exciting enough in the 100+ years leading up to 1990 (before major changes started happening like PSU, the BCS, etc)? We didn't see great games, great bowls, great players and coaches? The NFL wasn't supplied with enough talent? WHY do we NEED these expansions? If I hear the money excuse one more time... it's a damn arms race that has no benefit to the fan of college football - more teams = fewer games against traditional opponents and fewer OOC games (making intraconference ranking even tougher for national ranking accuracy). I just don't see the benefit to us as fans or the schools themselves (the extra money received goes right toward new facilities and coaches, not towards making school cheaper for students or funding research).

However, I'll play the game. Looking at AAU, the only true options I see for teams we'll target to make 16 (and I hope to god it stops there) will be (ranked in order of a combination of preference for the BT and likelihood of it happening):

Georgia Tech
North Carolina
Virginia
Texas
Kansas
Notre Dame

I think GT and NC are natural extensions south from MD, with the obvious jump being passing over the state of VA. However, VA is already covered (population-wise) with MD being so close to DC. I wouldn't be surprised to see VA in there. GT gets a large population of Atlanta and directly competes with the SEC for GA recruits. North Carolina is a bball powerhouse, respected school, and in another state without a BT school and good recruiting and positive population shifts.

I put Texas above Kansas because of the brand and the state it would bring - there are Texas alums living ALL over that state and it is a very worthy brand ($$-wise). Kansas is terrible at football but a bball blueblood, but it is not in a population heavy state and the major metro area in it is already largely served by Nebraska alums. Not sure of the value. Notre Dame is not AAU and would be the only team the BT would consider based solely on its brand and national following (not just alums) - clearly NBC feels they ALONE are worth a good amount of money.

Other schools I could see the BT targeting might be Mizzou or Florida, but I cannot see either leaving the SEC at ALL. There really aren't any other schools on that AAU list that are remotely close to BT geographic location, deliver new populations, and have enough of a sports focus to warrant addition. Pitt? Colorado? I just don't see it. My guess is two from UNC, UVA, and GTech.
 

e.bigelow said:
Gotta say I really agree with the thoughts Rittenberg offers here. Even though I would like to see Iowa State and Pitt added as far as rivalries and locations, realistically, they would not seem to make sense with what the B1G Ten is trying to accomplish with there "brand" expansion.

Like Adam said, B1G Ten Football is already very popular, it is mostly about tryin to reach new markets and audicences to increase the brand value.
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Why Pitt???
 

Why is no one suggesting one of the Boston schools? Obvious extenson geographically and big market area.

RailBaronYarr said:
"Try to think less like a fan and more like a businessperson." - Adam R.

These 2 quotes are exactly what's wrong with college football. The fact that population/demographics (tv contracts) would ever be more important than geographic proximity and natural (future) or existing rivalries shows exactly where college football has been going and will continue to head.

My question is - is it necessary? Do schools like Mich, OSU, Nebraska, PSU not already recruit in the south? Has our brand of football (style of play, rivalries born from geographic proximity and cultural similarities) not provided a strong national brand of football with loyal followers? Have college football games not been nearly exciting enough in the 100+ years leading up to 1990 (before major changes started happening like PSU, the BCS, etc)? We didn't see great games, great bowls, great players and coaches? The NFL wasn't supplied with enough talent? WHY do we NEED these expansions? If I hear the money excuse one more time... it's a damn arms race that has no benefit to the fan of college football - more teams = fewer games against traditional opponents and fewer OOC games (making intraconference ranking even tougher for national ranking accuracy). I just don't see the benefit to us as fans or the schools themselves (the extra money received goes right toward new facilities and coaches, not towards making school cheaper for students or funding research).

However, I'll play the game. Looking at AAU, the only true options I see for teams we'll target to make 16 (and I hope to god it stops there) will be (ranked in order of a combination of preference for the BT and likelihood of it happening):

Georgia Tech
North Carolina
Virginia
Texas
Kansas
Notre Dame

I think GT and NC are natural extensions south from MD, with the obvious jump being passing over the state of VA. However, VA is already covered (population-wise) with MD being so close to DC. I wouldn't be surprised to see VA in there. GT gets a large population of Atlanta and directly competes with the SEC for GA recruits. North Carolina is a bball powerhouse, respected school, and in another state without a BT school and good recruiting and positive population shifts.

I put Texas above Kansas because of the brand and the state it would bring - there are Texas alums living ALL over that state and it is a very worthy brand ($$-wise). Kansas is terrible at football but a bball blueblood, but it is not in a population heavy state and the major metro area in it is already largely served by Nebraska alums. Not sure of the value. Notre Dame is not AAU and would be the only team the BT would consider based solely on its brand and national following (not just alums) - clearly NBC feels they ALONE are worth a good amount of money.

Other schools I could see the BT targeting might be Mizzou or Florida, but I cannot see either leaving the SEC at ALL. There really aren't any other schools on that AAU list that are remotely close to BT geographic location, deliver new populations, and have enough of a sports focus to warrant addition. Pitt? Colorado? I just don't see it. My guess is two from UNC, UVA, and GTech.
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Rog said:
Why is no one suggesting one of the Boston schools? Obvious extenson geographically and big market area.
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Well, Boston University is the only one on that list, unless you're thinking of Harvard or MIT... Boston College is not AAU.

Every time a school is thrown out, I feel like there would be a major rivalry torn asunder. North Carolina.. they lose out on the best college basketball rivalry in Duke. Virginia.. VTech (although they'd gain back Maryland and potentially UNC). Georgia Tech could technically keep UGA on the schedule every year. Texas would lose Oklahoma (among other in-state schools the way MN is losing UND and all the state schools in hockey) but has already lost A&M. Kansas already lost Mizzou (tragedy) but would lose the next best thing in K-State. Notre Dame would lose, well, nearly everyone on their schedule (BC, USC, Navy, Pitt, and other schools periodically on the schedule every year).

I still love the U and attending games, but honestly, what's keeping me from treating college football any differently than the NFL if they treat their fans the same way the NFL does?
 

Rog said:
Why is no one suggesting one of the Boston schools? Obvious extenson geographically and big market area.
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There aren't really any schools in New England that fit the B1G mold, U Mass is probably the closest and they aren't in Boston, do not belong to the AAU, and are in the MAC for football starting in 2013.
 

For me the whole thing is that his #2 is really #1 in the minds of current B10 institutions.

AAU and research are the reasons that these schools exist, and I have no problem protecting that status.
 

Unregistered User said:
For me the whole thing is that his #2 is really #1 in the minds of current B10 institutions.

AAU and research are the reasons that these schools exist, and I have no problem protecting that status.
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They can say that all they want, but has there been any pressure from the other 11 schools to get Nebraska enrolled in the AAU again (or whatever the proper terminology would be)? I have a tough time believing that the B1G didn't know their AAU membership was tenuous when the offer was made.

I don't think they will add a school that has horrible academics, but I can easily see them making an exception for schools that are not AAU as long as the money makes sense. At some point they will likely have to if they want to get to 16 teams as the next two are coming out of a dwindling pool.

In otherwords, I think there is a sliding scale between money and academics. If Alabama wanted to come to the B1G I think they would craft a story to make it happen. If Iowa State with very good academics wants to come they won't be accepted since they add $0 to the bottom line.
 



Lakeville Goldy said:
They can say that all they want, but has there been any pressure from the other 11 schools to get Nebraska enrolled in the AAU again (or whatever the proper terminology would be)? I have a tough time believing that the B1G didn't know their AAU membership was tenuous when the offer was made.

I don't think they will add a school that has horrible academics, but I can easily see them making an exception for schools that are not AAU as long as the money makes sense. At some point they will likely have to if they want to get to 16 teams as the next two are coming out of a dwindling pool.

In otherwords, I think there is a sliding scale between money and academics. If Alabama wanted to come to the B1G I think they would craft a story to make it happen. If Iowa State with very good academics wants to come they won't be accepted since they add $0 to the bottom line.
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Nebraska said they were very surprised about their downgrade and are in the process of getting back their AAU membership. "Perlman said the AAU unfairly devalues agricultural research -- part of the institutional mission of each land-grant university -- and skews its results in favor of universities with on-campus medical centers."

Apparently Michigan and the Badgers wanted them to lose their AAU Membership.

After endorsing the University of Nebraska-Lincoln's entrance into the Big Ten Conference -- in part because of its academic strength -- leaders at the universities of Wisconsin and Michigan apparently helped oust UNL from an elite academic group, according to documents reviewed by the Journal Star.

Nebraska failed to garner the 21 votes it needed last April to remain in the Association of American Universities, a confederation of more than 60 top research institutions that collectively nets more than half of all federal research funds and awards more than half of the doctoral degrees in the nation. It was confirmed that UNL fell three votes short.

Emails and letters obtained by the Journal Star after a series of open-records requests indicate that Wisconsin and Michigan did not support UNL during its turbulent and unsuccessful AAU membership review earlier this year.

http://journalstar.com/news/local/e...cle_19188dda-afe7-57c8-aa2c-c1939ec5acb4.html
 

I gotta agree with RailBaronYarr here - his analysis of the teams seems spot on, with a minor quibble. I agree that it seems likely to be 2 of the UNC, UVA & Ga Tech. But beyond that, if for whatever reason 2 of those schools didn't want to come or whatever, I don't think Texas would be likely because I don't think Texas will want to move. They like being the big fish in the Big12 & they have all their rivalries there. I think if had just 1 of the NC/VA/GT schools on board and were desperate to add a 2nd, I think we'd try to go hard after Notre Dame or Missouri. I agree Missouri might be reluctant to leave the SEC, but I think we can pay them more and they somewhat add KC & St. Louis. And Notre Dame might think it has a good thing going - and it does - but if they feel the earth shifting, they might opt in. The are already pseudo moving to the ACC.

I also agree with him that all this expansion and crap just for the sake of money is stupid and bad for the average fan. All we hear about is nonsense about how one conference is so much better than another conference and they don't even play real teams outside their own conferences more than once/year. And I couldn't care less about Rutgers or Maryland or NC or VA or GT.
 

I was of the opinion that Mizzou wanted to join the Big Ten around the time of Nebraska was asked to join and that they like the Big Ten because of the more rigorous academics.
 

My kids have no care nor any interest of your child hood rivalry that you grew up with.

However, they are going to scream bloody murder when Rutgers is no longer in the Big Ten when they turn 30 (made up scenario) because that would eff with their child hood memories of watching football!
 



monk10 said:
My kids have no care nor any interest of your child hood rivalry that you grew up with.

However, they are going to scream bloody murder when Rutgers is no longer in the Big Ten when they turn 30 (made up scenario) because that would eff with their child hood memories of watching football!
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Kind of true isn't it?
 

monk10 said:
My kids have no care nor any interest of your child hood rivalry that you grew up with.

However, they are going to scream bloody murder when Rutgers is no longer in the Big Ten when they turn 30 (made up scenario) because that would eff with their child hood memories of watching football!
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Here's some news for you.. MN has beat Mich exactly 2x since I was born, and I care way more about playing them than Rutgers.

I'm sure people in MN will give 2 rips about (made up) losing Rutgers off the schedule.. a team from New Jersey. Just like Vikings/Packers/Bears/Lions fans were devastated when Tampa Bay was shifted to a different division. Not.
 

RailBaronYarr said:
Here's some news for you.. MN has beat Mich exactly 2x since I was born, and I care way more about playing them than Rutgers.

I'm sure people in MN will give 2 rips about (made up) losing Rutgers off the schedule.. a team from New Jersey. Just like Vikings/Packers/Bears/Lions fans were devastated when Tampa Bay was shifted to a different division. Not.
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You know that's not actually what he was trying to say don't you?
 


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