Acceptance rates at the U

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denguegopher said:
Does this mean that it will also be more difficult for athletes to be allowed entrance? http://colleges.startclass.com/stor...t.6964#16-University-of-Minnesota-Twin-Cities
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considering athletes in universities often have some of the highest graduation rates vs. the general college population, not sure why it would. i think people need to start giving athletes more credit on the academic front. just my two cents

p.s. that link you included was comparing acceptance rate changes over a 10 year period (2003 vs. 2013). to be sure, the U of M's admission standards and acceptance rates are considerably tougher now than they have probably ever been, but there are plenty of athletes out there who are both good students and good athletes. also, considering we are now almost in 2016 (so these tougher admission standards have been in place for a while now) and our recruiting and graduations rates both seem to be on the upswing, not sure what any consternation would be about here???
 

supadupafly said:
considering athletes in universities often have some of the highest graduation rates vs. the general college population, not sure why it would. i think people need to start giving athletes more credit on the academic front. just my two cents
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Disagree, athletes should have much more scrutiny (and they do) because of the incredible amount of academic assistance they are given. Would be interesting to see in an alternate universe what the "normal" student population's academic performance would be like if those benefits were available to everyone, but of course we can't do that in the real world because it would be prohibitively expensive.
 

Ski U Master said:
Disagree, athletes should have much more scrutiny (and they do) because of the incredible amount of academic assistance they are given. Would be interesting to see in an alternate universe what the "normal" student population's academic performance would be like if those benefits were available to everyone, but of course we can't do that in the real world because it would be prohibitively expensive.
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There's academic assistance to non athletes too.
 





Ski U Master said:
Nothing like on the scale that athletes receive.
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That's the truth. Some of my friends had classes with football players at the U. All the student athletes had to do was ask for another week on an assignment and boom - it was done. That would go on for weeks for a single assignment.

I'm not knocking the athletes by any means. That's just the way it is.
 

The U is harder to get into. The number of applicants has more than doubled over the past decade. This is a good thing, but it's also a rude surprise to parents and high schoolers who don't know this. The situation for athletes has probably not changed as much, but so what. Anyone who is critical of the help D1 athletes get should try being one. Athletes get a break because they have a special talent that the University values. If you want academic excellence and top notch student athletes, root for teams in the Ivy League. Otherwise sit down, because you are trying to have it both ways.
 



Who's complaining about it? I'm not. I think anyone with half a brain realizes schools have to make exceptions in order to get some of these kids (with special talents) to come to their schools. And obviously some of them need a lot more tutoring and hand-holding than others. Have no problem with that at all.
 

That doesn't matter. Do you really think all basketball players at Duke could get into that school based solely on their academic merits?

The lines are fudged with athletes. That is actually a very nice statistic. Makes me proud as a student. This is a great school, you need to earn your way in.
 

SickAndTiredOfLosingToWI said:
"sports management"
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Thanks Sid!

I don't think what the OP has posted will mean much on which athletes are accepted. I don't know if it will continue with Kill's retirement, but I always got the impression that Kill really lobbied to get some borderline kids into school with the assurance they would pull their weight in the classroom and Kill and company always seemed to make good on those guarantees. I think if the coaching staffs and the academic administrators are working together closely, everything is copacetic.
 

SickAndTiredOfLosingToWI said:
"sports management"
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FWIW i was a sport management major at the U and now work at ESPN. many of my friends also are working in the professional/collegiate realm. like anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it. going into the sport management program in an area like the Twin Cities is different than going into the same program in a place like iowa city or any other 'college town'.

that being said... there were many athletes in some of my classes and it was apparent they weren't there for the job prospects. idk what i'm arguing here. i guess you're right in regards to student athlete experience (in generalizations)
 



JZsportswhiz said:
That doesn't matter. Do you really think all basketball players at Duke could get into that school based solely on their academic merits? The lines are fudged with athletes. That is actually a very nice statistic. Makes me proud as a student. This is a great school, you need to earn your way in.
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Harvard has also reduced their admissions for athletes. Malcolm Gladwell talks about it a bit in his book "David and Goliath"
 

Never understood the mocking of athletes' majors. If a kid is at the U to play in the band are you mocking their English major? Nope. Just athletes we do that too. People don't stand outside CLA graduation and mock kids who have degrees they don't think are "real". Still just done to athletes. Since we can't bring them down a peg for their athletic ability, have to find some way to make ourselves still feel superior. It's really an odd thing, a kid can't just be good at sports. Nope. He has to be all big-10, have a 4.0 GPA, be a 5 star chef, be a licensed CPR provider, and save kittens from burning buildings.

Sure they have to go to class and pass those classes in the current NCAA set up and some focus on that more than others, but mocking the classes they are going to is pretty sad and petty. If a kid wants to get a 4.0 and can, great! That's awesome. But if you are going to mock athletes who don't then you better be standing outside the dorms doing the same to every single kid who drops out of school because they can't handle it.

Always get a kick out of making fun of athletes for being a marketing major too like it's not part of Carlson and every major company has people in marketing.
 

scher215 said:
Never understood the mocking of athletes' majors. If a kid is at the U to play in the band are you mocking their English major? Nope. Just athletes we do that too.
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That kid in band is an English major first and a band member second, and they don't fudge admissions to get a kid into the band and that kid is not on a full ride.

scher215 said:
People don't stand outside CLA graduation and mock kids who have degrees they don't think are "real".
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People make fun of "soft" CLA degrees all the time, philosophy/english/history/women's studies/etc majors are often the butts of jokes.

scher215 said:
Still just done to athletes. Since we can't bring them down a peg for their athletic ability, have to find some way to make ourselves still feel superior. It's really an odd thing, a kid can't just be good at sports. Nope. He has to be all big-10, have a 4.0 GPA, be a 5 star chef, be a licensed CPR provider, and save kittens from burning buildings.
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It's become too much the norm for athletes to be Athlete-Students rather than Student-Athletes. School has too often become a nuisance that has to be done to stay eligible for sports rather than the sports being a gateway to an education.

scher215 said:
Sure they have to go to class and pass those classes in the current NCAA set up and some focus on that more than others, but mocking the classes they are going to is pretty sad and petty. If a kid wants to get a 4.0 and can, great! That's awesome. But if you are going to mock athletes who don't then you better be standing outside the dorms doing the same to every single kid who drops out of school because they can't handle it.

Always get a kick out of making fun of athletes for being a marketing major too like it's not part of Carlson and every major company has people in marketing.
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The standard is different for athletes though, they are being granted a great opportunity to have a free education from a highly rated research university and are granted amazing resources to assist them with their studies. I think people get frustrated when they see someone squandering that opportunity which could have been used by someone else who took it more seriously. It's different than the "normal" kid that drops because he only squandered his own time and money. Agree on the Carlson point.

I will say that the majority of athletes take class seriously and do well, it's unfortunate that at times it is the more highly talented (and therefore more visible) athletes that seem to have trouble. As often happens in all facets of society, the failures get more publicity than the successes.
 

considering athletes in universities often have some of the highest graduation rates vs. the general college population, not sure why it would. i think people need to start giving athletes more credit on the academic front. just my two cents
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Most of the athletes go into the College of Education and Human Development (which is a joke, this is the same college international students get into if they aren't good enough at English) and major in something like Youth Studies, Sports Management, or Business Marketing Education.

Always get a kick out of making fun of athletes for being a marketing major too like it's not part of Carlson and every major company has people in marketing.
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It's not part of Carlson. They all take business marketing education in CEHD, Marketing in Carlson is extremely rigorous and requires alot of high level math classes and classes that other Carlson majors have to take. Things like finance and statistics.
 

man, some of you with apparent personal agendas/bias on this topic sure come off as pretty self-righteous, ivory tower d-o-u-c-h-e bags. cheers! :D
 

scher215 said:
Never understood the mocking of athletes' majors. If a kid is at the U to play in the band are you mocking their English major? Nope. Just athletes we do that too. People don't stand outside CLA graduation and mock kids who have degrees they don't think are "real". Still just done to athletes. Since we can't bring them down a peg for their athletic ability, have to find some way to make ourselves still feel superior. It's really an odd thing, a kid can't just be good at sports. Nope. He has to be all big-10, have a 4.0 GPA, be a 5 star chef, be a licensed CPR provider, and save kittens from burning buildings.

Sure they have to go to class and pass those classes in the current NCAA set up and some focus on that more than others, but mocking the classes they are going to is pretty sad and petty. If a kid wants to get a 4.0 and can, great! That's awesome. But if you are going to mock athletes who don't then you better be standing outside the dorms doing the same to every single kid who drops out of school because they can't handle it.

Always get a kick out of making fun of athletes for being a marketing major too like it's not part of Carlson and every major company has people in marketing.
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Kids in the band are not on scholarship and they do not use an incredible amount of resources. And how many scholarship athletes do you see as English majors? It is actually a challenging and time-consuming major. On the other hand, scholarship athletes get an incredible amount of support and a free education, and often choose majors (such as youth studies, etc.) that work well with their athletics schedule rather than something that they might otherwise pursue or grow from. It is not about "taking athletes down a peg", it is about reality. Ask yourself why you are so interested in putting athletes "up a peg" for no good reason?
 

Ski U Master said:
That kid in band is an English major first and a band member second, and they don't fudge admissions to get a kid into the band and that kid is not on a full ride. People make fun of "soft" CLA degrees all the time, philosophy/english/history/women's studies/etc majors are often the butts of jokes. It's become too much the norm for athletes to be Athlete-Students rather than Student-Athletes. School has too often become a nuisance that has to be done to stay eligible for sports rather than the sports being a gateway to an education. The standard is different for athletes though, they are being granted a great opportunity to have a free education from a highly rated research university and are granted amazing resources to assist them with their studies. I think people get frustrated when they see someone squandering that opportunity which could have been used by someone else who took it more seriously. It's different than the "normal" kid that drops because he only squandered his own time and money. Agree on the Carlson point. I will say that the majority of athletes take class seriously and do well, it's unfortunate that at times it is the more highly talented (and therefore more visible) athletes that seem to have trouble. As often happens in all facets of society, the failures get more publicity than the successes.
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I do think overall you make great points if we were truly dealing with students first, athletes second. But that isn't the case to me. And I don't think the blame for that falls on the athletes and I don't want to mock an 18 year old kid for that, I think it falls on the NCAA for creating a system that makes them the most profitable as opposed to one that primarily wants to educate young people and push academic success first.

I think you do make an interesting point about the education resources and receiving that education though too and that does make sense to me, but again, I don't fault the athlete for it. The school and the NCAA want this system. They want kids to focus on athletics as much as possible so they win games and bring in more money. So take an "easy" major and even then we will give you tons of help, so get out there and catch some touchdowns!

In a scenario where it is about education first you'll have athletes no longer want to be a part of the NCAA if their sole goal is to be professionals and potentially some who can't be a part of the NCAA because of the school work. Then real minor leagues will start to pop up to accommodate them and then the NCAA has competition and loses money and viewers and TV deals.

Amid all of my rambling, I think we mostly agree on the state of affairs, I would just put more blame for it on the NCAA than the athletes. I still don't think it's any worse for an athlete to take these majors than any other student though, sure they get all of these resources, but they also bring in far more money for the school than an average student would. I think the emphasis on education will be there as soon as the NCAA decides they want it to be, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
 

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