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Schnoodler

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Many of our local pundits are demanding either the gophers achieve a 5-3 B10 record or Brewsters head.

While I see and hope for the possiblity of an 8-4 record, I fail to see this as a reasonable expectation for this team in it's third season. People will point to the fact that Mase did it in his third year. But they'll fail to think about all the other years.

Mase had an advantage in that he was a head coach at a decent D1 school. He wasn't prone to the stumbles of a first time coach like Brewster. And stumble Brewster did, no denying that. He clearly required a bit of time to get solid footing. But even so, he's improving the team and program. And many believe he is on his way to great things. Yet to judge this program based on wins and losses at this point is short sighted and ignores the gains the program is making.

Yet the pundits demand a winning B10 record as proof that he can coach at this level.

Let's look at what they are asking:

This is the 37th year since Stoll took over for the Warmath program in 1972. In 37 years how many winning big ten records have we had? Five. It's only happened five times. Joe salem couldn't achieve that fete once, Wacker could not, not even the celebrated genius Lou Holtz.

Stoll managed to do it once in his seven years. Gutekunst managed to do it twice in six years, and Mason in ten years only managed to achieve this expectation twice.

And yet Brewster is expected to achieve this. Wait, it is being demanded of Brewster. In a program that is still being assembled, where only two years of his recruits are playing, and yes where we are paying for stumbles of a first time head coach.

Are we really going to be so blind as to the growth of the program, and the direction we're clearly headed by hobbling the program with expectations that could be met only five times in the last 37 years? Is that really a realistic expectation and measuring stick for this program at this time?

To be clear, the only reason we can be talking about the possibility of a five win conference season is because of the incredible growth of the program following the 2007 stumble. But let's give the due credit. If he achieves an 8-4 record with a winning B10 finish it's a great accomplishment for this program at this time.
 


Couldn't have said it better myself.

I love Brewster and hope he is here forever. I completely believe that we are going to achieve greater things with him at the helm. Patience...patience......patience.
 

Contention: I think Brewster has become a better coach each year.*

Rejoinder: But he is supposed to get better as a coach.

Conclusion: ______________________________


(*When we were 7-1 last year, I honeslty believed we would finish 7-5. Voila.)
 

From the very beggining I said after three years are completed then we will have a pretty good idea where this program is headed. When the Masonites were saying off with his head in year one I said, we need to give him two more years. When we were 7-1 last year and the Brewsterites where chanting, "He's the next Lombardi". I said let things play out more. Wether we win or lose to Northwestern let's let things play out and by the end of this season, we'll have a good indictation where the program is headed.
 


Here is the thing that bothers me:

Two years ago, we were totally dismantled in the talent department. Starting a redshirt freshman who was not highly ranked whatsoever. That QB happened to average 2 INT per game. Horrible O Line. Horrible D. New system from 2 new coordinators.

Last year was probably more reflective of the last five years of Mason's regime. OK record, late season swoon. Yadda....yadda.

Why is this guy on the hot seat. Didn't we expect to give this man some time. Didn't everyone know what they were getting into when they hired a first time head coach? What has he done to prove that he was the wrong hire?

Please....give me a break.

Perfect hire at this particular time.
 

Brewster did not inherit much from Mason. It takes time to recruit and develop players. Realistically, Brewster has had two full years to do this. I think he has the program moving in the right direction, and I think he deserves some type of extension.
 

I agree with much of your post Schnoodler. Where I think Brewster looks the worst is the management of the offense. This year coming up could be looking so much better if Brew had an idea of what he really wanted from an offense. Going to the spread, then back to a more run-style-pass-happy offense with an identity to be determined, has been painful to watch. So far we are seeing major improvements on Defense and Special teams. Virginia Tech has done a great job winning with these year in and year out. Brew took a huge gamble bringing in Fisch, and so far its going ok. Clearly our lack of RB(on Brew) and our lack of O line is killing us right now. But let's see what how many Bigten wins we can pull out playing good D, great special teams, and mediocre offense.
 

centerofmn said:
Brewster did not inherit much from Mason. It takes time to recruit and develop players. Realistically, Brewster has had two full years to do this. I think he has the program moving in the right direction, and I think he deserves some type of extension.
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The idiots in the media (Ex. Chad H. and Dan B.) have often mentioned that Brewster inherited a bowl team and should have gotten the team to another--that could not be further from the truth. Anyone who really paid attention to the program knows that the cupboard was pretty bare. The media... not so much! Those in the media that started off with that point of view were doomed from the begining to have any credibilty.
 



Schnoodler said:
In a program that is still being assembled, where only two years of his recruits are playing, and yes where we are paying for stumbles of a first time head coach.

Are we really going to be so blind as to the growth of the program, and the direction we're clearly headed by hobbling the program with expectations that could be met only five times in the last 37 years? Is that really a realistic expectation and measuring stick for this program at this time?
Click to expand...

:clap:

On Campus there is a positive buzz (finally) about Gopher Football and where we are heading.

One could argue that it is the stadium, but this started before we ‘moved in’. This noise or hum started with the mention of Brew as a recruiter of talent. In other words, it is steadily growing not just here on campus, but one could argue on GH and in the media.

I think it would be a travesty to not see where this wave is going. IMO... our team has played better in each game so far...our coaches and players seem to be learning and getting more confident. It would be nice to see what we can accomplish in two years given the increase in talent, before we tar and feather Brew or tell Maturi about his poor decision.

Rome wasn't built in a day. -John Heywood
 


The media doesn't really care if the Gophers win 5 Big Ten games, this is just another excuse to dump on the Gophers. If Brewster had an attitude of "we're never going to be any good, all we are striving for is a minor level bowl" the media in the Twin Cities would like him a whole lot better. But winning a conference title should be the goal of every coach each season, even if it seems unlikely at the beginning of the season.
 

Brewster doesn't complain about how hard it is to recruit here, or how things are so great relative the way they were in the early 90s (like Mase and his fans) so why even bring that stuff up. Everybody is worrying about what the media thinks and how raised expectations will get Brew fired if they are not met, but I think the primary reason these expectations exsist are due to these factors:

-The Big Ten is way down this year.
-The Gophers are actually pretty good.

People are giving Brewster a pass before a single game is even played, and it doesn't make sense. You criticize the media for placing what you call unrealistic expectations on the team so that way if they are met they don't have to act impressed, but if they aren't met the media gets to rip the guy. Aren't all of you doing the same thing? If Brew wins 9 games this year its because he is such a good coach, but if he loses a bunch it doesn't really matter because he is moving in the right direction anyway.

A big part of coaching is maximizing potential and working with what you have, and at this point you can't deny that there are a lot of good things in place right now. This team has a QB starting for the 3rd yr (w/a blue chipper in the wings), A top 3 WR in the country and several other very talented receivers, and a ton of seniors on what looks like the best defensive unit in a very long time. I think you have to give Brewster 5 years before you even think about firing him, but 6-6 is a big step back no matter how you look at it and 7-5 would be mediocre.
 



I don't think 6-6 is a step back, so I guess you're wrong since clearly I'm looking at it in a way that allows me to feel that way.

I also thing the dificiencies in the offense are severe enough to nullify the good things we have going for us. We've proven nothing in regards to our ability to win these next three games. Only that it's possible. There is no gimme based on what I've seen.

The notion the the B10 is down compared to last year makes less sense now than it did before. Michigan appears back, OSU, and PSU nicely ranked, and Iowa knocking on the door. The only basis for thinking we're down is because we don't have a legitamate national champion candidate and because wisconsin is in decline, else we're every bit as good as we've been for the last few years. If anything the conference only has 2 dogs, and maybe one if Purdue is indeed improving. So I disagree with that contention as well. If we had a great team this would be a great year to be in the big ten, but as we are average or slightly better than average it may actually be a worse year as we play no easy games.

So no, I am not doing the same thing as the media. I base my opinions on objective criteria, what has happened, and what is most likley to happen. Not on hopes and ethereal demands.

Praise for a solid year is based on a ton of objective criteria, most notable the last 40 years. Disdain for a likely outcome is based on little objective criteria other than some win loss number pulled out of the netherworld and some rotund hacks hatred for Brewster.
 

chi-town gopher said:
A big part of coaching is maximizing potential and working with what you have, and at this point you can't deny that there are a lot of good things in place right now. This team has a QB starting for the 3rd yr (w/a blue chipper in the wings), A top 3 WR in the country and several other very talented receivers, and a ton of seniors on what looks like the best defensive unit in a very long time. I think you have to give Brewster 5 years before you even think about firing him, but 6-6 is a big step back no matter how you look at it and 7-5 would be mediocre.
Click to expand...

But how can you say that when you take into account the schedule? Last year, our wins were: NIU, Bowling Green, Montana State, FAU, Indiana, Illinois, and Purdue. Uncompetitive against sucky Michigan and Iowa.

This year, to get to 7 wins again, we will need at least 4 Big Ten wins (assuming SDSU a win already). That's between Northwestern, Wisconsin, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, Illinois, and Iowa. You also have to account for the fact that our 2 wins this year already probably exceed all our wins last year except for Illinois maybe only cause it was a roadie and Illinois was a pretty darn good 5-7 team. So now you need to get 4 more wins that are of similar quality or better than that Illinois win last year. If we do that, how can 7-5 this year not be a step forward, and even if we only manage 3 not be considered a step forward, not a "big step back".
 

chi-town gopher said:
I think you have to give Brewster 5 years before you even think about firing him, but 6-6 is a big step back no matter how you look at it and 7-5 would be mediocre.
Click to expand...

Agree with the first part, but you are way off on the second.
 


RaT said:
OK fine. You're right.

19 INT's averages out to 1.58 per

So over 1 and a half Interceptions per game. Either way....tough to overcome.
Click to expand...

But he also threw for 2 TDs per game. So what's your point?

You seem to be insinuating that Weber holds a lot of blame for 2007. If that is the case, you couldn't be more wrong. I can easily think of a list of 20+ culprits for that season, and Weber's play is nowhere near the list.
 

chi-town gopher said:
People are giving Brewster a pass before a single game is even played
Click to expand...

No, we're not. It's funny that anyone would say this board gives Brewster a "free pass".

You criticize the media for placing what you call unrealistic expectations on the team so that way if they are met they don't have to act impressed, but if they aren't met the media gets to rip the guy.
Click to expand...

We criticize the media for simply dumping on the Gophers. This doesn't have anything to do with "media expectations". Example: the day after the Gophers win to open TCF stadium, Reusse takes a big dump on the Gophers. It's about a media that feels they are being severely put upon by being asked to cover the Gophers.

If Brew wins 9 games this year its because he is such a good coach, but if he loses a bunch it doesn't really matter because he is moving in the right direction anyway.
Click to expand...

Your point? Most people would agree that 9 wins would be a "tremendous" job, but that less than 9 wins does not mean we should storm the castle with pitchforks and torches.
 

RaT said:
Here is the thing that bothers me:

Two years ago, we were totally dismantled in the talent department. Starting a redshirt freshman who was not highly ranked whatsoever. That QB happened to average 2 INT per game. Horrible O Line. Horrible D. New system from 2 new coordinators.

Last year was probably more reflective of the last five years of Mason's regime. OK record, late season swoon. Yadda....yadda.

Why is this guy on the hot seat. Didn't we expect to give this man some time. Didn't everyone know what they were getting into when they hired a first time head coach? What has he done to prove that he was the wrong hire?

Please....give me a break.

Perfect hire at this particular time.
Click to expand...

Yep.......pretty good. You got me.
 

Schnoodler said:
Many of our local pundits are demanding either the gophers achieve a 5-3 B10 record or Brewsters head.

While I see and hope for the possiblity of an 8-4 record, I fail to see this as a reasonable expectation for this team in it's third season. People will point to the fact that Mase did it in his third year. But they'll fail to think about all the other years.

Mase had an advantage in that he was a head coach at a decent D1 school. He wasn't prone to the stumbles of a first time coach like Brewster. And stumble Brewster did, no denying that. He clearly required a bit of time to get solid footing. But even so, he's improving the team and program. And many believe he is on his way to great things. Yet to judge this program based on wins and losses at this point is short sighted and ignores the gains the program is making.

Yet the pundits demand a winning B10 record as proof that he can coach at this level.

Let's look at what they are asking:

This is the 37th year since Stoll took over for the Warmath program in 1972. In 37 years how many winning big ten records have we had? Five. It's only happened five times. Joe salem couldn't achieve that fete once, Wacker could not, not even the celebrated genius Lou Holtz.

Stoll managed to do it once in his seven years. Gutekunst managed to do it twice in six years, and Mason in ten years only managed to achieve this expectation twice.

And yet Brewster is expected to achieve this. Wait, it is being demanded of Brewster. In a program that is still being assembled, where only two years of his recruits are playing, and yes where we are paying for stumbles of a first time head coach.

Are we really going to be so blind as to the growth of the program, and the direction we're clearly headed by hobbling the program with expectations that could be met only five times in the last 37 years? Is that really a realistic expectation and measuring stick for this program at this time?

To be clear, the only reason we can be talking about the possibility of a five win conference season is because of the incredible growth of the program following the 2007 stumble. But let's give the due credit. If he achieves an 8-4 record with a winning B10 finish it's a great accomplishment for this program at this time.
Click to expand...


Nicely stated.

I would only add that with a Hall of Fame QB, arguably the best Front Four in the NFL, the best Running Back in all of football, a shut-down corner, a very, very consistent Kicker, a highly praised LB corps and a Head Coach that's been there for a few years it's the VIKINGS who should be getting all the media scrutiny.

Anything less then a 13-3 or 14-2 season followed by at least a Super Bowl appearance would mean underachievement and failure on a large scale if going by the "got to win the next three" standards.

I'm just saying if a football program in town REALLY needs to come through it is the one at the Dome.
 

RodentRampage said:
The media doesn't really care if the Gophers win 5 Big Ten games, this is just another excuse to dump on the Gophers. If Brewster had an attitude of "we're never going to be any good, all we are striving for is a minor level bowl" the media in the Twin Cities would like him a whole lot better. But winning a conference title should be the goal of every coach each season, even if it seems unlikely at the beginning of the season.
Click to expand...

If Brewster won 5 BT games, then some local media idiot, like Reusse, would complain that he didn't win 6. If he won 6, some idiot would complain that he didn't get us to the Rose Bowl yet. If he got us to the Rose Bowl, some doorknob would complain that he didn't get us to the National Championship yet. And if we got there and lost to, say, Tebow and Florida by 1 point, some idiot would still complain that Brewster didn't win it. If the Gophers won it, some local media idiot would complain that Brewster should have done it in years past too, and will demand he do it in every year future. Many in the local sports media in the TC are complete a-holes. Sometimes I'm happy to have moved away from the TCs just because of this - the negativity was mind-numbing and boring; and probably directly resulted in a lot of bad and underperforming Minnesota sports teams, along with a rather lethargic Minnesota sports base.

Getting rid of Reusse, Barriero, and a few other dolts in the Minnesota sports market is long overdue. Too many negative ninnies. Keep maybe one of them. Kick the others to the curb where they belong. Maybe they can get a radio show on Republican Radio or something so they can still bitch about stuff they know nothing about all day.
 

1. The program is headed in the right direction.
2. Brewster will get a well deserved contract extention at the end of this year.
3. When we finish this season compare/measure our success against the first three years that
Ferentz had with Iowa and Alvarez had with Wisconsin after their first three years as head
coach. Any, and I mean any level headed logical thinker (football mind) will understand that
our program is in good shape.
4. The Minneapolis media is a joke.
 

I have only a couple of points and then I'll hang up and listen.

Mason probably inherited a bigger mess. There was no chance of the Gophers getting out of the dome and no buzz about a new stadium.

While the team Brew inherited wasn't great, it wasn't 1-11 bad.

I think Brew has done a good job attracting talent. Now whether they can be made into football players, we'll see.

I'd like to see the Gophers get better, but they've never really been any good in my lifetime. I went back and did the math and they are a combined 81 games under .500 in Big Ten play in my lifetime.

And while Brew has upgraded the talent, the fact is that his two most important offensive players are among the players he inherited. That's part of the equation that almost always gets left out by the Brew apologists.

Summary: I don't think he has done anything to get fired, but I'm not sure he's done anything to make him worthy of an extension either. A total mixed bag.
 

I just don't understand why we can't just let the season play out before we take one side or the other on Brewster. It was painfully obvious that Mason was not going to be successful at Minnesota, we didn't need ten years to find that out. However, we certainly need more than 2 seasons to figure out if any coach was the right choice. How about a little balance? Not ten, Not two, but someplace in between. Brewster's team showed a ton of improvement in year two then collapsed badly. It looked impossible to finish with less than 9 wins last year and then the bottom fell out. Lets look at where we are on the field, and with recruiting, in November and decide where to go from there. There is no upside to the program to talk extension/firing now.
 

I personally would be fine with a 7-5 record given the schedule, OSU, PSU and Iowa all away games. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect. Anything beyond that I think is over achieving. Just my opinion.
 

anonymous said:
Mason probably inherited a bigger mess. There was no chance of the Gophers getting out of the dome and no buzz about a new stadium.
Click to expand...

My take is that program wise Mason did inherit a bigger mess. Look at the upgrades to all facilities and support from the University that happened during Mason's time here. Player wise, it's a different story. Mason had much better returning talent his first year than Brew did.
 

I like Brew but have never been a Mason buster. He did a very good job for the "U" under difficult conditions. He clearly inherited a mess and upgraded the program a whole lot. He also had a lot to do with the new stadium. I'm hopeful (in fact I believe) that Brewster can get us to the next level, but he has not shown it yet. If we end up with 7 or 8 victories this year, have another good recruiting class this year and no turnover in our co-ordinators/coaches after this season he should then be given an extension. If we have six wins, an OK recruiting class and lose three more coaches? Probably not.
 

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