A Coronavirus Vaccine Won’t Work if People Don’t Take It





MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
31,544
Reaction score
8,189
Points
113
I am not worried about my kids getting Covid. Covid death numbers in kids are comparable to the average flu deaths in children each year.
Delta is different. Previous numbers are irrelevant. It is sending more children to the hospital.

Deaths obviously aren't the only thing that matters. If your child can avoid the hospital by getting a free, completely safe vaccine, you'll do that just as much as you vaccinated them for all their required vaccinations to go to school.
 


MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
31,544
Reaction score
8,189
Points
113
That’s fine, as long as the cure isn’t worse than the disease. You could very well be right, but there isn’t any strong evidence.
Sure there is. It's sitting in Pfizer's datasets right now. In a couple months it will be in the FDA's hands, and then they'll grant it emergency approval.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
31,544
Reaction score
8,189
Points
113
You keep saying this, without any evidence it’s true.
Sure there is. Simple logic dictates it. There's nothing in the vaccine to react to. It's the body's immune reaction to the covid spike protein that's causing the inflammation. Therefore, it would have happened the same or worse with an actual infection.

Yeah, we already did this dance, and you threw out some vague, wishful crap about lipid nanoparticles. :rolleyes:

Delta has been spreading at high levels in CA thus far and minimal school outbreaks reported despite school being in session for several weeks in some districts. Kids are not little adults. They have different immune systems and don’t seem to spread it quite as easily. Maybe schools will keep doors and windows cracked and circulate air. We’ll see.
Limited spread in schools was true last year too. That has nothing to do with above.
 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
18,865
Reaction score
3,430
Points
113
Sure there is. Simple logic dictates it. There's nothing in the vaccine to react to. It's the body's immune reaction to the covid spike protein that's causing the inflammation. Therefore, it would have happened the same or worse with an actual infection.

Yeah, we already did this dance, and you threw out some vague, wishful crap about lipid nanoparticles. :rolleyes:


Limited spread in schools was true last year too. That has nothing to do with above.

One theory about the myocarditis phenomenon is mRNA traveling via blood vessels in the deltoid area of those with atypical anatomy to areas around the body which would include the heart. Nobody really knows for sure. Similar to how you don’t know the rate of myocarditis in 5-18 year olds.
 




Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
50,793
Reaction score
4,679
Points
113
Jumping in the middle here, so I may have missed part of what generated this response. I find this interesting because, like many things lately, this might "force" some into a contradiction. They would be against this free enterprise stance.
Health insurance is not free enterprise. It is a system totally perverted by government. If you like free enterprise like I do, then fine let’s do it. They can stop covering hospitalizations for smokers, obesity, drug use, etc.
 






Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
18,865
Reaction score
3,430
Points
113
Sure there is. It's sitting in Pfizer's datasets right now. In a couple months it will be in the FDA's hands, and then they'll grant it emergency approval.

These rare problems won’t show until they vaccinate tens of thousands of kids. I want to say the trial is only 3000 or so. I’m not totally sure.
Link. Or did you make that up out of thin air?

I know you won’t read an academic paper - here is a newspaper blurb. This idea doesn’t really explain satisfactorily why males are preferentially afflicted.



 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
18,865
Reaction score
3,430
Points
113

California had a much worse winter surge last year, up to 750 deaths per day at the peak despite CA‘s NPIs, crucially including the banning of outdoor dining which made all the difference…One would think we’d learn not to discount seasonality and other wierd virus factors at this point.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
31,544
Reaction score
8,189
Points
113
These rare problems won’t show until they vaccinate tens of thousands of kids. I want to say the trial is only 3000 or so. I’m not totally sure.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...hildren-under-12-help-rule-out-safety-issues/

A federal official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, predicted that authorization of a coronavirus vaccine for children 5 through 11 might come by late October or early November. The government is not expecting it will be a big problem to enroll more children because so many parents are eager to get their children vaccinated, the official said.

Ray Jordan, a spokesman for Moderna, said that the company was “actively discussing a proposal” with federal regulators to expand its trial, but had not settled on final numbers yet. He predicted that authorization could occur in “winter 2021/early 2022.”

“The objective is to enroll a larger safety database which increases the likelihood of detecting rarer events,” Jordan said in an email. The original trial included nearly 7,000 children from 6 months to 12 years old.
...
Pfizer originally designed its trial to include 4,500 children from 6 months to 12 years old. Two-thirds would receive the vaccine, and the rest would receive a placebo.

At a Food and Drug Administration advisory committee meeting last month, several experts said that they would expect the pediatric trials to be larger, although there was no consensus on a number.

The FDA wants to be particularly careful about the possibility of children developing myocarditis, or heart inflammation, after receiving a coronavirus vaccine. Adolescents who receive the vaccines are more likely to develop myocarditis than adults — though the risk remains small — and officials want to increase the chances that the trials will indicate whether there is increased incidence of heart inflammation in children.



According to global statistics, 50 per million doses of mRNA vaccine including BioNTech ones could trigger myocarditis or pericarditis – inflammation of the heart muscles and tissues surrounding the heart. The 12 to 29 age group is more prone to the condition, especially after the second dose. But most patients rapidly recovered from this potentially life threatening side effect, and mRNA vaccines are deemed safe, with the risks markedly outweighing the side effects.
...
In the study, researchers injected the mRNA vaccine into the thigh muscles of mice via the standard intramuscular routes and compared the outcomes with those of mice injected with the intravenous route.

“We found that the heart of those mice receiving intravenous vaccine developed obvious myocarditis and pericarditis within 24 to 48 hours. This heart damage is greater even after a second dose of vaccination 14 days later,” according to the team.

The hearts of mice which received intramuscular injections saw no such damage, leading the team to believe that accidental intravenous injections may cause the heart conditions.



Fine, thanks.

More likely to hit larger deltoid vasculature in males, wild guess.
 


Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
12,713
Reaction score
5,598
Points
113
Cool that you Google searched some random shit about vaccines.

How do you know there even is one with the Pfizer/Moderna shots?? :unsure:
My wife, who did an emphasis on immunology in graduate school and knows alot more than you. She said all vaccines have adjuvants. They are necessary to stimulate an immune response.

If you don't have adjuvants the vaccine could act like an allergy shot and create tolerance to the target instead of an immune response.

She also said over vaccination can most definitely trigger autoimmune disease.

Just admit you are f clueless.
 

Random Gopher Fan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
1,286
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
California had a much worse winter surge last year, up to 750 deaths per day at the peak despite CA‘s NPIs, crucially including the banning of outdoor dining which made all the difference…One would think we’d learn not to discount seasonality and other wierd virus factors at this point.
It’s a simple fact. This summer CA is doing 4x better than FL compared to only 2x better last year. Is CA doing things better this summer or is Florida just doing worse?
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
31,544
Reaction score
8,189
Points
113
They are necessary to stimulate an immune response.
Nope.

The mRNA goes into cells and causes them to produce spike proteins. That triggers an immune response.


Maybe in the J&J they added one.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
12,713
Reaction score
5,598
Points
113
Nope.

The mRNA goes into cells and causes them to produce spike proteins. That triggers an immune response.


Maybe in the J&J they added one.
You are such a bullshit liar.

The authorised mRNA vaccines against COVID – made by Pfizer and Moderna – also contain an adjuvant.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
31,544
Reaction score
8,189
Points
113
The authorised mRNA vaccines against COVID – made by Pfizer and Moderna – also contain an adjuvant.
Swing and a miss.

The article you link here just links to a Nature article, for this claim. Here it is: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41565-020-00820-0

The word "adjuvant" does not appear in that Nature article. Maybe they linked the wrong one? No idea.
 



Random Gopher Fan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
1,286
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
As long as they are charging fat people an extra $500 I am good with it. How about an extra $300 for smokers? $400 for people who ride in cars or on bikes? $200 for eating ice cream? Let's make these companies rich!!!!
I totally agree with you in that we should get rid of private insurance entirely. Like you I too am a supporter of universal health care so companies wouldn’t have the opportunity to exploit their workers.
 

So_Money

Active member
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
159
Reaction score
60
Points
28
I totally agree with you in that we should get rid of private insurance entirely. Like you I too am a supporter of universal health care so companies wouldn’t have the opportunity to exploit their workers.
Umm. No?

This has nothing to do with insurance. Delta is pocketing that money, not giving it to the insurance company. Moreover proponents of universal healthcare have proposed doing this very thing, i.e. charging people based on their choices... and there is no end to it because all people make bad choices one way or the other.
 

Random Gopher Fan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
1,286
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
Umm. No?

This has nothing to do with insurance. Delta is pocketing that money, not giving it to the insurance company. Moreover proponents of universal healthcare have proposed doing this very thing, i.e. charging people based on their choices... and there is no end to it because all people make bad choices one way or the other.
The charge only applies to employees that are on Deltas insurance plan. If they don’t want to pay the charge they can find another insurer.
 

So_Money

Active member
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
159
Reaction score
60
Points
28
The charge only applies to employees that are on Deltas insurance plan. If they don’t want to pay the charge they can find another insurer.
Sure, but what Delta is doing defeats the point of offering group insurance in that it is supposed to split costs and risk between the group. It is shady.
 

Random Gopher Fan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
1,286
Reaction score
1,081
Points
113
Sure, but what Delta is doing defeats the point of offering group insurance in that it is supposed to split costs and risk between the group. It is shady.
They are either financing their risk for those that stay and also getting rid of their most expensive employees that would have caused their rates to rise. It’s what insurance is and what employers do.

Tl/dr vaccinated delta employees are tired of subsidizing the unvaccinated.
 

So_Money

Active member
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
159
Reaction score
60
Points
28
They are either financing their risk for those that stay and also getting rid of their most expensive employees that would have caused their rates to rise. It’s what insurance is and what employers do.

Tl/dr vaccinated delta employees are tired of subsidizing the unvaccinated.
Again, you are probably doing something or prone to something someone else is subsidizing. Singling out unvaccinated people is not a consistent philosophy if we are to go down that road.

Companies are doing this to increase profits under the guise of concern for public health.
 




Top Bottom