A Coronavirus Vaccine Won’t Work if People Don’t Take It


MplsGopher

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The ignoring-of-natural-immunity issue has stumped me. Like many many COVID related things, it just doesn't make sense. All I can think of is that those in charge think the positive COVID testing results are bullshit (a high volume of false positives) and many people really don't have immunity. Short of far-fetched conspiracy theories, that's all that makes sense to me.
Natural immunity isn’t as good as vaccine immunity. Simple as that. No need to try to invent skepticism where there is none to be had.
 

jamiche

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It isn’t a coincidence that case rates and death rates went down as vaxx rates went up. Sometimes the answer really is right in front of your face.
 

FormerFatOL

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It isn’t a coincidence that case rates and death rates went down as vaxx rates went up. Sometimes the answer really is right in front
Case rates starting plummeting in many states well before vaccine use was prevalent including ours. Regardless, vaccine effectiveness isn't the question (they obviously are). The question is why aren't former cases and natural immunity being counted towards herd immunity goals/progress. It's just another form of spin, in a long line of spins, regarding COVID.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Case rates starting plummeting in many states well before vaccine use was prevalent including ours. Regardless, vaccine effectiveness isn't the question (they obviously are). The question is why aren't former cases and natural immunity being counted towards herd immunity goals/progress. It's just another form of spin, in a long line of spins, regarding COVID.

That and why do we hear nothing about seasonality when it clearly is.
 


jamiche

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That and why do we hear nothing about seasonality when it clearly is.
It not clearly seasonal. Case rates rose nationally last summer, hitting a peak on 7/21/20 for the summer months. Case rates rose again during the winter mostly because certain segments refused to heed Fauci’s advice not to gather for the holidays.
The sharp downward slope of case and death rates correlates exactly with the upward slope of vaccinations. The answers are right in front of your face.
The donalds are operating on false assumptions:
1. Information is static;
2. Trump was competent.
3. Fauci was incompetent.
4. Fauci was conspiring with China to release a virus designed to kill millions to hundreds of millions.
What’s wrong with you people?
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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It not clearly seasonal. Case rates rose nationally last summer, hitting a peak on 7/21/20 for the summer months. Case rates rose again during the winter mostly because certain segments refused to heed Fauci’s advice not to gather for the holidays.
The sharp downward slope of case and death rates correlates exactly with the upward slope of vaccinations. The answers are right in front of your face.
The donalds are operating on false assumptions:
1. Information is static;
2. Trump was competent.
3. Fauci was incompetent.
4. Fauci was conspiring with China to release a virus designed to kill millions to hundreds of millions.
What’s wrong with you people?
You really need a course in data analysis.
 


Section2

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Unfortunately daily vaccine numbers continue to fall even with teenagers now eligible. I know my experience doesn’t necessarily represent everyone but I’m seeing a lot of people just changing their reasoning for not getting it. And, unfortunately, a lot of people still making the decision based on false info.
Republican teenagers?
 




Section2

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You’re proving my point with that statement. At a minimum, that’s a significant exaggeration.

As for the vaccine lies, many of them are extremely easy to debunk as they go against the basic understanding. For instance, many people are saying these vaccines shed but that would take a live virus but none of the vaccines include a live virus.
The virus never spread outside. There was never any reason to think if spread outside. We knew very early that airflow and sunlight worked. How much damage did we do by shutting down outdoor events and restaurants? One small example, and there are many. No doubt that they will later determine that masks did nothing. Lockdowns obviously did nothing.
 

Section2

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Look how terrified Democrats are. This won’t be easy to overcome. Sad.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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So you’ve got nothing.
I’ve posted it plenty of times in the past. There is a high correlation between temperature decrease in the north, and increase in the south during the summer. Being inside and vitamin D exposure are the main drivers.

It’s Science.
 



GophersInIowa

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The virus never spread outside. There was never any reason to think if spread outside. We knew very early that airflow and sunlight worked. How much damage did we do by shutting down outdoor events and restaurants? One small example, and there are many. No doubt that they will later determine that masks did nothing. Lockdowns obviously did nothing.
We were discussing vaccines specifically. Nothing you posted has anything to do with vaccines.
 

GophersInIowa

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Case rates starting plummeting in many states well before vaccine use was prevalent including ours. Regardless, vaccine effectiveness isn't the question (they obviously are). The question is why aren't former cases and natural immunity being counted towards herd immunity goals/progress. It's just another form of spin, in a long line of spins, regarding COVID.
You can’t assume everyone that previously tested positive is currently immune. Many are but the length of immunity is not known for sure. Plus many of those people that previously tested positive have gotten the vaccine already so even if you assume natural immunity, you can’t count them twice.
 

Section2

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We were discussing vaccines specifically. Nothing you posted has anything to do with vaccines.
The portion of Ogees post that you bolded, had nothing to do with vaccines, and specifically stated the amount of misinformation on the virus over the last 12-15 months. Are you saying you bolded that part but it wasn’t the focus of your response?
 

jamiche

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I’ve posted it plenty of times in the past. There is a high correlation between temperature decrease in the north, and increase in the south during the summer. Being inside and vitamin D exposure are the main drivers.

It’s Science.
You got your B.S. from Trump University. I checked three states, FL, IL and MN as a representative sample of your vitamin D/temperature "hypothesis." All three showed rising case rates in the summer of 2020 (IL also had a spring peak), spikes around the holidays and strong, consistent declines beginning in Mid April. Vaccination rates were averaging over 3M/day by late March.
 

GophersInIowa

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The portion of Ogees post that you bolded, had nothing to do with vaccines, and specifically stated the amount of misinformation on the virus over the last 12-15 months. Are you saying you bolded that part but it wasn’t the focus of your response?
Correct. The first part of the response was to the bolded. The rest of it (majority of it) was about vaccines. Thought it was pretty clear when I started it off by saying “As for the vaccine lies...”.
 

Section2

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Correct. The first part of the response was to the bolded. The rest of it (majority of it) was about vaccines. Thought it was pretty clear when I started it off by saying “As for the vaccine lies...”.
Guess which part of your post I was responding to? Thought it was pretty clear.

No biggie, if you don’t want to discuss anything other than vaccines, that’s fine. Maybe don’t bold the non vaccine parts if that’s your focus.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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You got your B.S. from Trump University. I checked three states, FL, IL and MN as a representative sample of your vitamin D/temperature "hypothesis." All three showed rising case rates in the summer of 2020 (IL also had a spring peak), spikes around the holidays and strong, consistent declines beginning in Mid April. Vaccination rates were averaging over 3M/day by late March.

Like the other looney tunes on this site, you can't make one argument without saying Trump's name when he has nothing to do with it. Delusional.

The case increase last summer occurred when it started getting really hot, people were spending more time indoors, and because it was a new disease. That increase was nothing compared to what happened last fall through this spring, which tracks very closely to other seasonal coronaviruses. Deaths last summer were nowhere close to where they were in Spring of 2020, and this last fall-spring. Seasonal.

Turn off CNN and learn how to read a chart.
 


Spoofin

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MplsGopher

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Why is it interesting that 1359 desk workers, working remotely from their homes, for Cleveland Clinic didn't test positive again?

Were they even ever exposed to the virus again? The study certainly doesn't know or say. It's just an elementary looking at high level data.


Now, do I actually know that those 1359 were desk workers, or that they were working remotely from home? No. But it gave you pause for a second, at how easily I was able to destroy the narrative of the post.

Nothing is ever that easy.



The fact remains that viruses are capable of defeating the human immune system. We already have such viruses, like HPV and HIV.

So there's no reason to pretend to be shocked or dismissive of the idea that, in some people, the immune system does a poor job of clearing out Sars2 from the body.


And the fact that some people have long-haul symptoms proves this. And then the fact that some of those people's symptoms cleared up when given the vaccine, proves that the vaccine provoked a superior immune response.
 

MplsGopher

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It's almost never an all or nothing proposition.

Some people - maybe a lot of people - will be just fine, for the rest of their lives, having been infected with Sars2, recovered on their own, and are and will remain symptom free going forward.


But the vaccines are free, proven highly effective and high safe, and you risk nothing by getting it.

There has never been a vaccine where people suddenly developed dramatic, disabling loss of life quality or even death, several months or years after taking the vaccine.

We'd know by now, if something was going to happen, at this point in those 30k trial populations.


Nothing has happened, and nothing ever is going to happen.
 

jamiche

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Like the other looney tunes on this site, you can't make one argument without saying Trump's name when he has nothing to do with it. Delusional.

The case increase last summer occurred when it started getting really hot, people were spending more time indoors, and because it was a new disease. That increase was nothing compared to what happened last fall through this spring, which tracks very closely to other seasonal coronaviruses. Deaths last summer were nowhere close to where they were in Spring of 2020, and this last fall-spring. Seasonal.

Turn off CNN and learn how to read a chart.
I hope you were part of the class action settlement with Donald Trump University.

According to your logic, everybody headed back outside in the middle of July last summer because the weather was cooling off. That's what Donald would say.

If you knew how to read a chart, you would have seen spikes that jumped that stood out amongst the upward trends that lined up perfectly with the post holiday incubation timeline. Even Donald could see that. Well, probably not.

The reason deaths were less during the summer than the spring was Donald did nothing for two months. It took several months and several governors to get masks and social distancing in place while Donald got in the way.

Very little seasonal coronaviruses this year because of masking and social distancing. Thanks to Dr. Fauci and President Biden.

Weekly case rates dropped two weeks after peak weekly vaccination levels. Again, thanks to President Biden and Dr. Fauci.

Stop watching OAN. You'll end up as stupid and corrupt as Donald.
 

Plausible Deniability

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Natural immunity, who would have thought?

So, just to be clear, is THIS just "more misinformation and lies"? Or science? Tough to keep track without a scorecard. I think we need more information here, such as, does the Cleveland Clinic have a liberal or conservative slant/bias? That's how we make our decisions, right?
 

MplsGopher

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So, just to be clear, is THIS just "more misinformation and lies"? Or science? Tough to keep track without a scorecard. I think we need more information here, such as, does the Cleveland Clinic have a liberal or conservative slant/bias? That's how we make our decisions, right?
No surprise: you asking someone else to tell you how you should think.
 

Spoofin

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So, just to be clear, is THIS just "more misinformation and lies"? Or science? Tough to keep track without a scorecard. I think we need more information here, such as, does the Cleveland Clinic have a liberal or conservative slant/bias? That's how we make our decisions, right?
It’s actual data - which ranks behind Twitter posts and polls.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I hope you were part of the class action settlement with Donald Trump University.

According to your logic, everybody headed back outside in the middle of July last summer because the weather was cooling off. That's what Donald would say.

If you knew how to read a chart, you would have seen spikes that jumped that stood out amongst the upward trends that lined up perfectly with the post holiday incubation timeline. Even Donald could see that. Well, probably not.

The reason deaths were less during the summer than the spring was Donald did nothing for two months. It took several months and several governors to get masks and social distancing in place while Donald got in the way.

Very little seasonal coronaviruses this year because of masking and social distancing. Thanks to Dr. Fauci and President Biden.

Weekly case rates dropped two weeks after peak weekly vaccination levels. Again, thanks to President Biden and Dr. Fauci.

Stop watching OAN. You'll end up as stupid and corrupt as Donald.

I feel bad for all the democrats that are brainwashed like you. I'd love to see the data that proves me wrong, and proves you have even a tiny shred of ability to analyze anything without mentioning politics.
 

Pompous Elitist

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It not clearly seasonal. Case rates rose nationally last summer, hitting a peak on 7/21/20 for the summer months. Case rates rose again during the winter mostly because certain segments refused to heed Fauci’s advice not to gather for the holidays.
The sharp downward slope of case and death rates correlates exactly with the upward slope of vaccinations. The answers are right in front of your face.
The donalds are operating on false assumptions:
1. Information is static;
2. Trump was competent.
3. Fauci was incompetent.
4. Fauci was conspiring with China to release a virus designed to kill millions to hundreds of millions.
What’s wrong with you people?

Seasonality meaning proclivity to gather indoors. Not necessarily celestial alignments.
 




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