A Coronavirus Vaccine Won’t Work if People Don’t Take It


Spoofin

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The Biden Administration takes Gov DeSantis’ idea to combat Covid. They sure didn’t have anything kind to say about him or his program when he launched it a few months ago.

1. They not only criticized DeSantis, Biden limited the amount of MA Florida could get. Biden may be responsible for deaths with that purely political move.

2. Guaranteed this will be discussed as Biden’s idea in short order
 



Face The Facts

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Hi all, From personal experience, I can tell you that at a nearby hospital, they are overflowing with COVID patients and they are under-staffed (that's been the case for a while of course).

The COVID patients are all non-vaccinated save some 80+ year old person with heart issues.

A person I know while caring for one of the COVID patients got an earful about why the vaccines isn't working. The person giving her an earful was not vaccinated.

This is the logic nurses are getting to deal with right now.

I'm not keeping an official tally, but it seems to be about 20-1 ratio at this hospital of non-vaccinated to vaccinated, but it seems like this stat makes zero sense to those who are not vaccinated.

I wish some of these unvaccinated people would realize it's not just their life they are messing with because it's affecting nurses who are stuck caring for these people. It's depressing and thankless, and growing confrontational. Doctors are also understaffed, one was spending much of his days trying to find beds at other hospitals for these COVID patients to move to (and likely eventually die).

It's insane the amount of denial these non-vaccinated people carry with them.
 


MplsGopher

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Hi all, From personal experience, I can tell you that at a nearby hospital, they are overflowing with COVID patients and they are under-staffed (that's been the case for a while of course).

The COVID patients are all non-vaccinated save some 80+ year old person with heart issues.

A person I know while caring for one of the COVID patients got an earful about why the vaccines isn't working. The person giving her an earful was not vaccinated.

This is the logic nurses are getting to deal with right now.

I'm not keeping an official tally, but it seems to be about 20-1 ratio at this hospital of non-vaccinated to vaccinated, but it seems like this stat makes zero sense to those who are not vaccinated.

I wish some of these unvaccinated people would realize it's not just their life they are messing with because it's affecting nurses who are stuck caring for these people. It's depressing and thankless, and growing confrontational. Doctors are also understaffed, one was spending much of his days trying to find beds at other hospitals for these COVID patients to move to (and likely eventually die).

It's insane the amount of denial these non-vaccinated people carry with them.
We need to start clawing back the medical costs of dealing with these assholes.
 

Face The Facts

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We need to start clawing back the medical costs of dealing with these assholes.

It's crazy because I'm surprised there isn't more public about it from Walz or the nursing unions. The environments nurses who are dealing with the patients right now should quantify as emergency / hazard pay right now.

There is a real gap in reality from the anti-vaxxers as well. I have family members who are, and it doesn't seem to register with them what a difference being vaccinated does to prevent you from needing to go to the hospital

I just don't see this ending until many almost all of the non-vaccinated get COVID. Most will survive, but it makes for a pretty bad couple weeks for a lot who do survive it. Tired of hearing them show up and ask what they can do at the point they are in the hospital. Well, the thing to have done to make it easier for doctors and nurses would have been to do what you've been fighting against for months.

It's interesting how strong people fight this. There's a study in social science that needs to be done here.
 

bga1

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It's crazy because I'm surprised there isn't more public about it from Walz or the nursing unions. The environments nurses who are dealing with the patients right now should quantify as emergency / hazard pay right now.

There is a real gap in reality from the anti-vaxxers as well. I have family members who are, and it doesn't seem to register with them what a difference being vaccinated does to prevent you from needing to go to the hospital

I just don't see this ending until many almost all of the non-vaccinated get COVID. Most will survive, but it makes for a pretty bad couple weeks for a lot who do survive it. Tired of hearing them show up and ask what they can do at the point they are in the hospital. Well, the thing to have done to make it easier for doctors and nurses would have been to do what you've been fighting against for months.

It's interesting how strong people fight this. There's a study in social science that needs to be done here.
If you are dishonest with people and try to force them to do something- they will fight back. The honest truth is that there should be absolutely zero pressure on people who already had covid to get vaccinated. Previous infection is better than the vax. The other issue is vaxxing kids- which makes zero sense.

Face the facts, they just have not been honest. You are otherwise correct that the vax has good statistical backing that it has short term therapeutic value for the person taking it. Beyond that it has zero value towards herd immunity and very little if any known value for preventing the spread. That is the science.
 

Face The Facts

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If you are dishonest with people and try to force them to do something- they will fight back. The honest truth is that there should be absolutely zero pressure on people who already had covid to get vaccinated. Previous infection is better than the vax. The other issue is vaxxing kids- which makes zero sense.

Face the facts, they just have not been honest. You are otherwise correct that the vax has good statistical backing that it has short term therapeutic value for the person taking it. Beyond that it has zero value towards herd immunity and very little if any known value for preventing the spread. That is the science.
Another non-vaccinated person died due to COVID. They insisted it was not COVID.
Told person I know "God will ultimately judge them" for calling it COVID when it's not.
Before leaving family member returned to discuss for 10 minutes how nurse did a bad job by calling it COVID and that it was clearly pneumonia.

I don't know how you are drawing these conclusions that the vaccine isn't helping when those people aren't the ones dying and blaming deaths on random other causes that are not what they are dying from.

These people show up angry and hostile at health care workers for doing their job when they are understaffed because they have rooms full of non-vaccinated people.

You say "they have not been honest".
Who is "they"?
Are nurses "in" on the conspiracy? Doctors?
What's their kickback in this?
 



GopherWeatherGuy

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Another non-vaccinated person died due to COVID. They insisted it was not COVID.
Told person I know "God will ultimately judge them" for calling it COVID when it's not.
Before leaving family member returned to discuss for 10 minutes how nurse did a bad job by calling it COVID and that it was clearly pneumonia.

I don't know how you are drawing these conclusions that the vaccine isn't helping when those people aren't the ones dying and blaming deaths on random other causes that are not what they are dying from.

These people show up angry and hostile at health care workers for doing their job when they are understaffed because they have rooms full of non-vaccinated people.

You say "they have not been honest".
Who is "they"?
Are nurses "in" on the conspiracy? Doctors?
What's their kickback in this?

Who's not being honest? Here's your starting point.

 

bga1

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Another non-vaccinated person died due to COVID. They insisted it was not COVID.
Told person I know "God will ultimately judge them" for calling it COVID when it's not.
Before leaving family member returned to discuss for 10 minutes how nurse did a bad job by calling it COVID and that it was clearly pneumonia.

I don't know how you are drawing these conclusions that the vaccine isn't helping when those people aren't the ones dying and blaming deaths on random other causes that are not what they are dying from.

These people show up angry and hostile at health care workers for doing their job when they are understaffed because they have rooms full of non-vaccinated people.

You say "they have not been honest".
Who is "they"?
Are nurses "in" on the conspiracy? Doctors?
What's their kickback in this?
Who is not being honest? Start from the top down- Fauci, the FDA, the media, the Biden administration. If you cannot allow dissenting voices and you will not admit to some of the obvious points I listed, then you are not being honest. That describes our medical leadership. From there follow the money. The FDA is loaded with Pharma people who have run interference for the vax.
The hospitals are paid a premium for classifying cases as Covid- what result do you imagine that will bring? Go back to my post that you answered and deal with the specific issues I offered regarding the dishonesty. I don't think you can refute them, which is probably why you asked another question instead of answering.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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I don't know how you are drawing these conclusions that the vaccine isn't helping when those people aren't the ones dying and blaming deaths on random other causes that are not what they are dying from.
At the risk of being argumentative here, the problem I see is that there is a Grand Canyon-esque gap between "the vaccine is helping" and mandating a relatively unknown and unproven vax upon the entire population and shaming/bullying everyone in sight relentlessly who may have at least some apprehension and hesitation because of a lengthy list of possible concerns they might have.
 

Face The Facts

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At the risk of being argumentative here, the problem I see is that there is a Grand Canyon-esque gap between "the vaccine is helping" and mandating a relatively unknown and unproven vax upon the entire population and shaming/bullying everyone in sight relentlessly who may have at least some apprehension and hesitation because of a lengthy list of possible concerns they might have.

Who's not being honest? Here's your starting point.

1. I assume data changed, but I understand how people still want to argue statements from 16 months ago.

It's odd to me that people are that simple in thought process that they thought an April 2020 decision would be all encompassing solution on a pandemic, and that it wasn't accurate, it's a major conspiracy.
 



Face The Facts

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At the risk of being argumentative here, the problem I see is that there is a Grand Canyon-esque gap between "the vaccine is helping" and mandating a relatively unknown and unproven vax upon the entire population and shaming/bullying everyone in sight relentlessly who may have at least some apprehension and hesitation because of a lengthy list of possible concerns they might have.

At what point does unknown and unproven become known and proven?
 

Face The Facts

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Who is not being honest? Start from the top down- Fauci, the FDA, the media, the Biden administration. If you cannot allow dissenting voices and you will not admit to some of the obvious points I listed, then you are not being honest. That describes our medical leadership. From there follow the money. The FDA is loaded with Pharma people who have run interference for the vax.
The hospitals are paid a premium for classifying cases as Covid- what result do you imagine that will bring? Go back to my post that you answered and deal with the specific issues I offered regarding the dishonesty. I don't think you can refute them, which is probably why you asked another question instead of answering.

I don't even understand what they are being dishonest about.
The FDA has always had big pharma. The FDA has always had food conglomerates driving health decisions. (Food Pyramid driven by food companies like General Mills and Pillsbury).

Hospitals are being funded because they are dealing with an epidemic. They are trying to find agency staff nurses to take care of the case load. How do you expect them to document the effect of COVID patients if they don't count them?

Do you think nurses and doctors who have a floor of people who tested positive for COVID are exaggerating numbers when they don't come on their floor if they don't have COVID?

Or do you think med-surgical floors without COVID patients, where the nurses don't want to deal with COVID patients, do you expect that they are blowing up the numbers for their deaths as COVID when they don't deal with that process?

This is where I'm confused. The conspiracy doesn't work because there is no reason the nurses and doctors who don't touch COVID patients would have any motivation of "Yeh, let's mark this death as COVID even though we don't deal with COVID patients".

What's in it for them?
 

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1. I assume data changed, but I understand how people still want to argue statements from 16 months ago.

It's odd to me that people are that simple in thought process that they thought an April 2020 decision would be all encompassing solution on a pandemic, and that it wasn't accurate, it's a major conspiracy.

It's odd to me that you come on here complaining about hospital capacity, after Walz shut down the state for 4 months and was given billions all in the name of increasing capacity, and capacity has only decreased since.

And yet you don't understand how that raises red flags? He could be giving a fraction of that budget to add more health care workers and give the already overworked large bonuses for their hard work. Instead he's using it to give out scholarships to kids who don't need the vaccine, and healthcare workers continue to quit, be laid off.

No conspiracy here at all....
 

Face The Facts

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It's odd to me that you come on here complaining about hospital capacity, after Walz shut down the state for 4 months and was given billions all in the name of increasing capacity, and capacity has only decreased since.

And yet you don't understand how that raises red flags? He could be giving a fraction of that budget to add more health care workers and give the already overworked large bonuses for their hard work. Instead he's using it to give out scholarships to kids who don't need the vaccine, and healthcare workers continue to quit, be laid off.

No conspiracy here at all....

It's a staff issue. Adding beds with no staff doesn't solve anything when the doctors and nurses have more beds than they have staff to handle.

The amount of $$$ to promote vaccination is tiny, and well spent because the vaccinated aren't taking up the bed / staff. That's just straight math.

You seem more concerned about financial implications. I could care less about the financial $ because it's not affecting the doctors or nurses putting up with this crap. It's also not my problem to solve. The problem to solve would be for us to get to a point where less people are in the hospital.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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It's a staff issue. Adding beds with no staff doesn't solve anything when the doctors and nurses have more beds than they have staff to handle.
Walz has had 4 billion to spend on staffing for over a year now.

The amount of $$$ to promote vaccination is tiny, and well spent because the vaccinated aren't taking up the bed / staff. That's just straight math.
This is completely false. MN has spent a ton of money on promoting the vax, giving scholarships to kids etc. He's not spending money on increasing staffing and easily could.

You seem more concerned about financial implications. I could care less about the financial $ because it's not affecting the doctors or nurses putting up with this crap. It's also not my problem to solve. The problem to solve would be for us to get to a point where less people are in the hospital.
Walz has had the resources to solve this problem for well over a year. It's a very solvable problem and he chooses not to. All doctors and nurses should be angry about that.

Also, not everyone in the hospital is unvaccinated by Minnesota's own data, which disputes your original anecdotal statement. Hospitalizations have ranged from 1/3 - 1/2 of them being vaccinated for nearly two months. Here's the latest data, you need to 'face the facts'.

 

bga1

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I don't even understand what they are being dishonest about.
The FDA has always had big pharma. The FDA has always had food conglomerates driving health decisions. (Food Pyramid driven by food companies like General Mills and Pillsbury).

Hospitals are being funded because they are dealing with an epidemic. They are trying to find agency staff nurses to take care of the case load. How do you expect them to document the effect of COVID patients if they don't count them?

Do you think nurses and doctors who have a floor of people who tested positive for COVID are exaggerating numbers when they don't come on their floor if they don't have COVID?

Or do you think med-surgical floors without COVID patients, where the nurses don't want to deal with COVID patients, do you expect that they are blowing up the numbers for their deaths as COVID when they don't deal with that process?

This is where I'm confused. The conspiracy doesn't work because there is no reason the nurses and doctors who don't touch COVID patients would have any motivation of "Yeh, let's mark this death as COVID even though we don't deal with COVID patients".

What's in it for them?
At the doctor, nurse level they follow company rules. If a patient is in the hospital dying at age 90, they get tested for Covid. If they are positive they get marked as a Covid death- per the hospital rules. No conspiracy, the are following a process.

The lying is done right at the top as I told you, but you continue to sidestep. The lying is done about the following:

1. The efficacy of the vaccines is exaggerated. It does reduce death. It does not stop transmission, it does not help young people, it is of little or no help for healthy people. There is no reason whatsoever, based on the above for any type of mandate.
2. The US and Chinese government roles in causing this virus are being hidden by government officials and a compliant media. We can see it in emails between Fauci, EcoHealth and a big health care exec. Jeremy Farrar. There is no doubt that we are seeing a virus here - that at a minimum was man made. Furthermore it appears that the response was gamed out in 2019, oddly enough.
3. The silencing of opposing opinions on government influenced media and social media is chilling and indicative of deep dishonesty and fascism in government.
4. There is a lack of any evidence of the ability of masks to help yet Fauci and government official continue to press forward, even though we see in Fauci's private emails that they don't work and scientific studies show that the pores in masks are far to big to stop the virus at all.
5. The hiding of risks associated with the vaccines both at the government and media level. This includes the FDA asking for 50 years to roll out the information that took months to generate in the Pfizer approval and testing process. The first releases show massive problems. Those documents, now proven to be legit FDA docs, caused the first account that revealed them to be removed from Twitter. Oppose the narrative- get censored.

There is billions and billions of dollars at stake with the vaccine companies. Moderna was bleeding 100's of millions in cash per year until Covid. Now they are flush with billions. There have been several new billionaires minted in this process surrounding the vaccines. People in power are making money. There is a great fear among them that Omicron could end the Covid scare, thus the furious rush to vax everyone up to fend off the killer virus that is not. The more people that are vaxxed the more they can claim that the vax stopped the Omicron and we will require boosters for the next round. The mere existence of unvaxxed people infuriates the power elite because it carries the threat of refuting their narrative.

The labeling by the left and authorities of the unvaxxed, as "anti-vax" is also untrue. I am not anti-vax. If you have one- good for you, that was your risk decision and I hope it was a good one. I have made my own based on prior infection and in no way do I say that I will never vax, I just want to make the appropriate risk choice for what I see in front of me, for myself. Ok?
 
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Face The Facts

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Walz has had 4 billion to spend on staffing for over a year now.


This is completely false. MN has spent a ton of money on promoting the vax, giving scholarships to kids etc. He's not spending money on increasing staffing and easily could.


Walz has had the resources to solve this problem for well over a year. It's a very solvable problem and he chooses not to. All doctors and nurses should be angry about that.

Also, not everyone in the hospital is unvaccinated by Minnesota's own data, which disputes your original anecdotal statement. Hospitalizations have ranged from 1/3 - 1/2 of them being vaccinated for nearly two months. Here's the latest data, you need to 'face the facts'.

If you are going to cite data, please go to the actual source and not a twitter account that works very hard to paint a different picture.

 

GopherWeatherGuy

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If you are going to cite data, please go to the actual source and not a twitter account that works very hard to paint a different picture.


The account sourced the same data and the tweet is accurate. MDH is the one being misleading by how they present it.

Jan Malcom has lied repeatedly in press conferences, easily proven by their own data. Yet you somehow don't understand 'who's lying'.
 


MplsGopher

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It's odd to me that people are that simple in thought process that they thought an April 2020 decision would be all encompassing solution on a pandemic, and that it wasn't accurate, it's a major conspiracy.
Those people, want to believe it, because they're desperate for any excuse not to take it. So they'll listen to anyone saying it, or anyone writing it on social media.

It's that simple. That's the psychology.
 

Face The Facts

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At the doctor, nurse level they follow company rules. If a patient is in the hospital dying at age 90, they get tested for Covid. If they are positive they get marked as a Covid death- per the hospital rules. No conspiracy, the are following a process.

The lying is done right at the top as I told you, but you continue to sidestep. The lying is done about the following:

1. The efficacy of the vaccines is exaggerated. It does reduce death. It does not stop transmission, it does not help young people, it is of little or no help for healthy people. There is no reason whatsoever, based on the above for any type of mandate.
2. The US and Chinese government roles in causing this virus are being hidden by government officials and a compliant media. We can see it in emails between Fauci, EcoHealth and a big health care exec. Jeremy Farrar. There is no doubt that we are seeing a virus here - that at a minimum was man made. Furthermore it appears that the response was gamed out in 2019, oddly enough.
3. The silencing of opposing opinions on government influenced media and social media is chilling and indicative of deep dishonesty and fascism in government.
4. There is a lack of any evidence of the ability of masks to help yet Fauci and government official continue to press forward, even though we see in Fauci's private emails that they don't work and scientific studies show that the pores in masks are far to big to stop the virus at all.
5. The hiding of risks associated with the vaccines both at the government and media level. This includes the FDA asking for 50 years to roll out the information that took months to generate in the Pfizer approval and testing process. The first releases show massive problems. Those documents, now proven to be legit FDA docs, caused the first account that revealed them to be removed from Twitter. Oppose the narrative- get censored.

There is billions and billions of dollars at stake with the vaccine companies. Moderna was bleeding 100's of millions in cash per year until Covid. Now they are flush with billions. There have been several new billionaires minted in this process surrounding the vaccines. People in power are making money. There is a great fear among them that Omicron could end the Covid scare, thus the furious rush to vax everyone up to fend off the killer virus that is not. The more people that are vaxxed the more they can claim that the vax stopped the Omicron and we will require boosters for the next round. The mere existence of unvaxxed people infuriates the power elite because it carries the threat of refuting their narrative.

The labeling by the left and authorities of the unvaxxed, as "anti-vax" is also untrue. I am not anti-vax. If you have one- good for you, that was your risk decision and I hope it was a good one. I have made my own based on prior infection and in no way do I say that I will never vax, I just want to make the appropriate risk choice for what I see in front of me, for myself. Ok?

1. The vaccine doesn't affect healthy people, problem is non-vaccinated healthy people do get COVID and some DO die. At that point they are no long "healthy".

2. A lot of stuff can appear hidden by governments. Much of what is hidden may never be seen. Any good conspiracy has stuff hidden. We have people that don't understand basic facts about vaccinated and non-vaccinated stats, so if people want to misinterupt government intentions as some sort of conspiracy, they can run all day with that. I don't think there is a way to convince someone out of a conspiracy, so my efforts will be limited here.

3. It's even tougher when the conspiracy you believe in relies in false numbers about the effectiveness of a vaccine.

4. I think masks are stupid, and hardly effective, but no one publicly can admit how stupid that is at this point. I wear one where required out of courtesy for now.

5. What are the massive risks of the vaccine? I've taken it. I'm fine. I'm not worried. So has many family members. I'd guess the flu shot has risks as well. Are you actually scared to take this vaccine? What do you fear will happen?
 

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At what point does unknown and unproven become known and proven?
Never.

You can almost never prove something beyond all doubt.

Some people treat it as "sport" and "entertainment" to come up with new ways to lie about it.
 

bga1

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If you are going to cite data, please go to the actual source and not a twitter account that works very hard to paint a different picture.

Define "fully vaccinated". If you were vaxxed in March are you still fully vaccinated? Only 31% of Minnesotans have taken a booster....

Again, what you see here is a subtle dishonesty by moving the goal posts. Before the vaccines stopped the disease and the transmission. Now they don't but they say "breakthroughs are not a measure of efficacy" right at the state website....... well of course they are!

Before you were just vaccinated. Now the stats are saying fully vaccinated. Who is now counted as fully vaccinated? What is the expiration date of your vax?

Why are people who had Covid and test positive for antibodies not counted in a category? That would certainly be interesting info.....hmmm
 

MplsGopher

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If you are going to cite data, please go to the actual source and not a twitter account that works very hard to paint a different picture.

As always, it's just slight of hand trickery.


Note how it suddenly switches to just the last four weeks.

Indeed, we have a brand new variant.


The lie and trick is that they're trying to imply, and hope people just accept, that the last four weeks must then be the truth of the entire pandemic.


-OR-

They're straight up lying about what the definition of vaccinated is, and falsely changing people to "unvaccinated" if they haven't had a booster yet. Wouldn't be surprised at all, if that was the lie.
 

MplsGopher

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Are you actually scared to take this vaccine? What do you fear will happen?
They'll turn right around and say they chose to take it.


They're literally only fighting government authority to "force" people to take it, or mandate it.


A very sick mental disease, indeed.
 

Face The Facts

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Those people, want to believe it, because they're desperate for any excuse not to take it. So they'll listen to anyone saying it, or anyone writing it on social media.

It's that simple. That's the psychology.

It's mystifying to me, and from people I know who deal with these patients, many stay in denial while they fear for their lives. Others get angry.

As a nurse, you can imagine how perplexing this is.

They hold so true to these ideas, it's almost as if there is an alter conspiracy to get these people to buy into it to eradicate those who fall into this population segment. From dealing with it at ground level, it's quite startling to see how strong they are in their belief, meanwhile the most ironic outcome is happening to them personally as they die from COVID for not taking the vaccine when they were 100% healthy prior to COVID.

I don't care who you vote for or who you want to blame. I'm not strong willed enough politically to care either way. I just would prefer if the hospitals weren't understaffed and overworked. And I'd prefer the non-vaccinated patients who are 95% of the patients at this particular hospital would act decent towards the staff caring for them. It shouldn't be too much to ask.

If you want to risk it and go ahead and possibly die from COVID knowing that was a risk, fine. But don't have your family chew out the staff after you die. Stop that.
 

bga1

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1. The vaccine doesn't affect healthy people, it certainly does problem is non-vaccinated healthy people do get COVID and some DO die. almost never At that point they are no long "healthy". Stats show that almost everyone that dies of Covid has an underlying health issue that is a comorbidity, I think the average deaths is accompanied by an average of 4 comorbidities if I recall correctly.

2. A lot of stuff can appear hidden by governments. Much of what is hidden may never be seen. WELL YEAH.... Any good conspiracy has stuff hidden. We have people that don't understand basic facts about vaccinated and non-vaccinated stats, so if people want to misinterupt government intentions as some sort of conspiracy, they can run all day with that. I don't think there is a way to convince someone out of a conspiracy, so my efforts will be limited here. You don't have anything, obviously.

3. It's even tougher when the conspiracy you believe in relies in false numbers about the effectiveness of a vaccine. This is why the government lying is so bad. It is actually you that believes the conspiracy.

4. I think masks are stupid, and hardly effective, but no one publicly can admit how stupid that is at this point. I wear one where required out of courtesy for now. Thank you for the admission that the government is lying.

5. What are the massive risks of the vaccine? I've taken it. I'm fine. I'm not worried. So has many family members. I'd guess the flu shot has risks as well. Are you actually scared to take this vaccine? What do you fear will happen?
Go to VAERs. Over 1 million reports. That's just what has been reported so you know that it is the tip of the iceberg. A lot of these are mild. Many are not. Myocarditis in previously healthy young people is most definitely happening as a result of the vax. Deaths are most definitely happening.

No one knows the long term risk yet since we bypassed all of that in the emergency approvals. I am not saying that is a bad call or a good one...we simply do not know. Some scientists, albeit the minority believe that in the future a lot of auto immune diseases will be caused by the vax. That's why this should be a personal risk assessment and not mandated.
 




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