5 men in the backfield = illegal formation..correct?

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So the NCAA refs now call 5 men in the backfield instead of saying illegal formation? this is new right?

MN had this foul called 3 times against Miami.
 

Having 5 in the backfield is one way to line up illegally (anything other than 4 is illegal). Some officials wishing to be a bit more specific have given that terminology for a long time.
 

This is just another way of saying that you didn't have 7 men on the line, right?
 

yes, correct. 7 men have to be on the line at the snap, so I guess it really doesnt matter how you call it, it's a 5 yard spanking.... if I saw correctly, it was always the widest flanker that didn't get on the line. Your very outside WRs should always be on the line with your slots in motion off... (think the guilty parties were Keise and McKnight)
 

What the problem was....

Gopher028 said:
yes, correct. 7 men have to be on the line at the snap, so I guess it really doesnt matter how you call it, it's a 5 yard spanking.... if I saw correctly, it was always the widest flanker that didn't get on the line. Your very outside WRs should always be on the line with your slots in motion off... (think the guilty parties were Keise and McKnight)
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The problem was that Chris Bunders was not far enough up on line. He was flagged three times for it. Coach Kill argued with the ref about it but said he would have to see the film before he knew if there was a problem and exactly what it was.
 


Gopher028 said:
yes, correct. 7 men have to be on the line at the snap, so I guess it really doesnt matter how you call it, it's a 5 yard spanking.... if I saw correctly, it was always the widest flanker that didn't get on the line. Your very outside WRs should always be on the line with your slots in motion off... (think the guilty parties were Keise and McKnight)
Click to expand...

If you have a tackle covered by a TE, then your flanker or WR on that side can not be on the LOS or your TE becomes ineligible--IOW, if you are in a basic 1 TE formation, the reciever on the opposite side of the TE needs to be on the LOS, but the receiver on the TE side had better not be if you want the TE eligible. You can have more than 7 on the LOS, but some will be ineligible, but you can't have more than 4 in the "backfield". The WR/Flanker on the TE side would be considered "in the backfield" because he is not lined up on the LOS. Thus, no one else other than QB, FB and TB can be in the backfield with that offensive set. It gets a little more complicated when you have just QB and TB behind offensive line, but the same rule holds---only 4 "in the backfield".
 

BisonGopher said:
This is just another way of saying that you didn't have 7 men on the line, right?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I believe that you can have more than 7 on the line. But you have reduced your number of eligible receivers (those on the end of the LOS and those in the backfield).
 

Yeah there's a lot of variables in different formations. I guess I didn't see Bunders off the line so much, it looked like the set they were in with the man in motion to the opposite side of the ball after the H-Back got set left the far end WR off the line when he should have been on. Looked to me to be Keise. Perhaps i'm wrong with the play I saw, I'll have to try to watch a replay of the game.

And yes you can have more than 7 on the line but a minimum of 7. Commonly you'll see a double TE set with a full-back motion to the line in run down scenarios, such as on the goal line, and in times you'll see a TE pull off the line and go in motion prior to the snap to become eligable again, in case your good enough to do a play action fake to the TE.
 

Do not have to have 7 on the line in college. To be on the LOS you have to break the waist of the center.


Offensive Team Requirements—At the Snap
ARTICLE 4. Each of the following (a-c) is a live-ball foul and the play is
allowed to continue.
a. Formation. At the snap Team A must be in a formation that meets these
requirements:
1. All players must be inbounds.
2. All players must be either linemen or backs (Rule 2-27-4).
3. At least five linemen must wear jerseys numbered 50 through 79
(Exception: When the snap is from a scrimmage kick formation, par. 5
below.)
4. No more than four players may be backs.
5. In a scrimmage kick formation at the snap (Rule 2-16-10) Team A may
have fewer than five linemen numbered 50-79, subject to the following
conditions:
 






didn't coach Kill say it was LT Olson that the referees kept saying was in backfield

I thought I heard coach Kill say on the Sid and Dave show that when he was arguing with the ref
about the 3 times called for illegal formation the ref said it was the left tackle Olson who was to far back not LG Bunders. Live at the game it looked like Bunders was the one to far back off the line, but the ref said it was the left tackle Olson. Either way Kill said he would have to look at the film to determine what the ref was seeing or calling.
 




And here I thought it was the outside receiver. If the refs are barking at the interior linemen, it really makes no sense. I can see the call if it's the guys to the outside, but the five interior guys? Sounds like a ref who really likes to call something inane simply because he can.

Or maybe Kill was thinking of running the guard-eligible play.
 

50PoundHead said:
And here I thought it was the outside receiver. If the refs are barking at the interior linemen, it really makes no sense. I can see the call if it's the guys to the outside, but the five interior guys? Sounds like a ref who really likes to call something inane simply because he can.

Or maybe Kill was thinking of running the guard-eligible play.
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This gives an unfair advantage to the tackle if he is allowed to get a head start against the defense in passing situations. I have been watching the games this season and to honest, I'm surprised it has not been called more. They need to break the waist of the center. If there is space between the center and the tackle it is a foul, if there are already four backs. Officials only call this if they are not close or if they have already given a warning to get up on the line.
 

From my vantage point in 235, Bunders was lined up in the backfield more than three times. On several occasions the LT was lined up closer to the LOS than the LG. It will be very obvious on film, especially when they are heading west, with the box camera at their back. It definitely needs to be addressed, as it also appeared that where he was lining up was causing some issues since the defender could get further up field before contact was made.
 

The simple way to say it is that there must be at least 7 men on the LOS at the snap of the ball every time. If anyone is lined up on the LOS they can not have another player lined up on the LOS anywhere outside of them or that player is ineligible. So the only potentially eligible players are those lined up in the backfield and the last man on the LOS on either side of the ball if there are NOT already 4 players in the backfield.
 

Also OL have to be at least at the beltline of the center to be considered on the line (at least how I've been taught) so when they cheat back too much they get flagged at times. I don't think its a cheap call either because in pass pro they've essentially given themselves an extra step against an upfield rush. If defenders get flagged for being over the line OL should get flagged for backing away from it
 

MaxyJR1 said:
This gives an unfair advantage to the tackle if he is allowed to get a head start against the defense in passing situations. I have been watching the games this season and to honest, I'm surprised it has not been called more. They need to break the waist of the center. If there is space between the center and the tackle it is a foul, if there are already four backs. Officials only call this if they are not close or if they have already given a warning to get up on the line.
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I get what you're saying, but if one of the interior linemen takes a "head start," it would be illegal motion. I suppose the other argument would be a guard being a step behind the other offensive linemen would provide him with a different blocking angle and if that's the case, I can live with the logic of a penalty being called.

I think it's pretty clear though that the seven guys designated as being on the LOS cannot move before the snap and that if Bunders wasn't going in motion (or it was not his intent to move), not being even with the center gets a little nit-picky.
 

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