3-4 Defense next Season and Beyond?

CrocShots

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http://1500espn.com/sportswire/Wolfson_Shift_to_34_defense_would_fit_Gophers_personnel_in_2011112910

From Doogie today.

Let's get out heads out of our A$$es for a while and talk about something else. Thoughts?

Personally I could like it. The problem is that this year our D-Line was fairly non-Existant and couldn't pressure until Cosgrove had his play calls revoked after Brew was fired. though 3-4s tend to have more interesting blitz schemes and would be something that hasn't been seen in the Big Ten in a bit (from my limited knowledge).
 

Keep in mind, this scout thinks that Stoudermire will move back to WR with Gray at QB... if he stays at CB, he'll obviously be a starter.
 

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I am actually a fan of the 3-4 myself. But you don't go to a 3-4 simply because it is what you have, you go there because you have a coach that knows and coaches the 3-4 well.
 

Mike Rallis would be their Clay Matthews? I'm not sure he could make a dumber statement.
 



Back in the 70's & early 80's almost every college team played what is now a 3-4. It was a 5-2 with stand-up ends (who were basically OLBs).
 


I wouldn't have a problem with it. I am actually a fan of the 3-4 myself. But you don't go to a 3-4 simply because it is what you have, you go there because you have a coach that knows and coaches the 3-4 well.

Too true IMO. You certainly don't want to force your DC to implement a system he can't coach (e.g. RichRod forcing the 3-3-5 @ Mich despite Robinson's inability to teach it).
 





Moving Stoudemire back to offense would be a great mistake. He has been the best player in the defensive secondary since his move to defense. While he may be the gophers most exciting player when he has the ball in his hands, the problem is getting the ball there. He was blessed with DB hands. Also, I doubt that a new coach will move Keanon Cooper from a starting LB to a 2nd string safety. Keanon Cooper is one of the best players on the defense, they will find a spot for him on the field.
 


Stoudamire reminds me of a very poor mans devin hester.
Good return man, Hester is an all time great.
And no coach can figure out where to play him when he isn't returning kicks.
 



NO!!! I absolutley hate the 3-4. Unless you have superior talent, teams will run over you like a Mack truck. We already have enough trouble trying to slow down Becky, I don't want to make it even more difficult.

Georgia just switched to the 3-4 and they gave up more yards on the ground this year than they have in the last decade combined.

Having said that, you have to recruit the right personnel to run this front so it may take a couple of years to show results, but as a rule of thumb, I hate it.

I'm a 4-3 guy!!!
 

I'm a 4-3 guy!!!

Yea the 3-4 has its weaknesses. As does any defense. I think that there is more of a hatred for the 3-4 by common fans out there because more people are used to the 4-3 since a lot of the defenses started changing over in the 80s.

I'm a 3-4 guy, but also have some experience with the 4-3.
 

It would be a gigantic mistake to move Stoudermire back to offense and I think there is virtually zero chance that happens. I actually think there would be a much better chance that Vareen would switch to WR than Stoudermire.

As far as Carter at FS, I am not 100% sure on that. It would be nice to have a FS who could cover some ground. For the last few years it has seemed like we were always playing with two SS's. I would just have a problem with moving one of our better cover players to a position that I am not 100% sure fits him.

As far as the 3-4 goes, I am ok with it, but I really think the push for the 3-4 is based solely on the fact that we haven't had much success getting a pass rush lately. I don't think that fact alone should push us towards any particular defense. I just want the best defensive coach we can find and let him implement what he sees fit.
 

Yea the 3-4 has its weaknesses. As does any defense. I think that there is more of a hatred for the 3-4 by common fans out there because more people are used to the 4-3 since a lot of the defenses started changing over in the 80s.

I'm a 3-4 guy, but also have some experience with the 4-3.


You are right, every defense has a weakness, but it seems to me that when the 3-4 is weak, teams run through you like a bad stomach virus! I know a loss is a loss, but I'd rather lose 50-0 via the pass than 50-0 getting run over by running backs at will. Neither is fun to watch, but giving up yards on the ground to me means that you are just physically weak.

If you beat me because I gave up 450 through the air, at least I could still feel like I could whip your a$$ outside the stadium in a street fight! :D
 

Stoudamire reminds me of a very poor mans devin hester.
Good return man, Hester is an all time great.
And no coach can figure out where to play him when he isn't returning kicks.

Ummmm....no. Troy had a few moments on defense this year, but all he can do is return kickoffs. His ego is not backed up by his play on the field.
 

Ummmm....no. Troy had a few moments on defense this year, but all he can do is return kickoffs. His ego is not backed up by his play on the field.

I said very poor mans for a reason. Keep in mind that Hester changed positions 3 or 4 times while at Miami, and then another time with the Bears.
Stoudamire was a decent slot WR, and seems to be a decent DB. What the next staff does with him is anyones guess.
 

Ummmm....no. Troy had a few moments on defense this year, but all he can do is return kickoffs. His ego is not backed up by his play on the field.


Which is why he said "a very poor man's Devin Hester". Hester is obviously great at returning kicks (as he even stated) but it is about the only thing he does real well. Stoudermire sounds a lot like Hester to me, albeit a "very poor man's" version of him.

As far as simply playing in college, Stoudermire is more than capable of being a decent CB.
 

You are right, every defense has a weakness, but it seems to me that when the 3-4 is weak, teams run through you like a bad stomach virus! I know a loss is a loss, but I'd rather lose 50-0 via the pass than 50-0 getting run over by running backs at will. Neither is fun to watch, but giving up yards on the ground to me means that you are just physically weak.

If you beat me because I gave up 450 through the air, at least I could still feel like I could whip your a$$ outside the stadium in a street fight! :D

That is a misconception.
The 3-4 is not bad against the run.
The 4-3 is not bad against the pass.
The 3-4 is not good against the pass.
The 4-3 is not good against the run.

In the NFL, Some of the best run defenses are the 3-4 (Ravens, Jets)
Some of the worst pass defenses are the 4-3 (Lions, Vikings)

The 3-4 is vulnerable to the Iso play if your NT can't hold up. If your Linemen cannot draw double teams your LBs can get caught in the wash.
The 4-3 is also vulnerable to the run (see gopher defense this year) and the pass (see gopher defense this year).

Either can be successful against the run AND pass if implimented, recruited for, and run correctly.
 

I would say Stoudermire stays on defense based off his late season play. Also, Bryant Allen will likely fill the role as the slot receiver that Stoudermire would play. Just my two cents.
 

Which is why he said "a very poor man's Devin Hester". Hester is obviously great at returning kicks (as he even stated) but it is about the only thing he does real well. Stoudermire sounds a lot like Hester to me, albeit a "very poor man's" version of him.

As far as simply playing in college, Stoudermire is more than capable of being a decent CB.

Extremely poor is more like it. Homeless man's Devin Hester? Probably.

BLITZ! BLITZ! BLITZ! Defend a slant. Tackle somebody. Quit missing tackles!
 


I am amazed how horrid we are at this year after year. I mean, this deserves a Ditka C'MON MAN! Hopefully Beal will get it done next year!
 


Players make tackles
Better players make better tackles.

Very true. Just shocked how many we miss every game. Even in the Iowa game, we missed a bunch. I thought tackling is kinda important. Defense wins championships.
 

I believe tackling can be correct through proper coaching. These kids received D1 scholarships for their success in high school. They must have known how to tackle in high school to receive these scholarships, you don't just forget how to tackle. Tackling like everything else needs to be practiced. More time needs to be dedicated to the fundamentals in practice. Taking correct pursuit angles is a place to start, then once you get to the ball carrier work on Tackling form. Breaking down, head placement, wrapping up, running through your target are all things that should be taught regardless of level.

Its not a coincidence when there is poor tackling every year under the tutelage of coaching staff, its a trend. Poor tackling was a trend under the Brewster staff and the common denominator is the staff.

Fundamentally sound football teams generally out perform their talent level on a consistent basis. Hopefully, the new staff has the attention to minor details that has been lacking.
 

I was wondering if Tinsley and Beal would make it more feasible next year. Those two might be the best two defensive players and getting them both on the field in the middle might make the defense better.
 

It's an interesting thesis and topic of conversation and it's nice to see some actual football talk if only to distract from all this coaching craziness going on. There are positives and negatives to each philosophy, but I will say I'm a 3-4 guy based upon my own experiences.

At its base, the 3-4's got 3 defensive linemen, which consist of 2 DE's and 1 DT/NT. All three of those linemen have two gaps to fill and it's their job to stop the run. Your LE is responsible for the gaps between the TE and RT, and RT and RG. Your DT/NT covers the gaps between RG and C and C and LG. Your RE watches the gap between LG and LT and also covers the weak-side. Your Mike LB's are primarily there to back up their DL in run support, which is essential because there are 5 guys on the offensive line vs. 3 on the defensive, so your mikes have gotta be on the ball and able to shed their blockers and stop the run once it gets beyond the line.

One thing the 3-4 requires is an absolute stud at NT, and here I'm talking about someone along the lines of a Jay Ratliff. He needs to be durable, have stamina, speed and size, because in the 3-4 he's either going to be double or triple teamed while also needing to watch his gaps for the run. It's a lot to ask and a lot required from the NT position, and that's why you need a true stud- and whether Jewhan Edwards could be that guy, I honestly have no idea. It's an intriguing thought though at the very least. One qualifier though is that finding a true stud at NT is much easier said than done, because it's possibly the most difficult position to play in a base 3-4.

Another key is the OLB's, who are the main pass rushing threat in the 3-4, but it's also essential that they have the speed, awareness and ability to drop back in coverage and do that successfully. They need to do both, and the best of them are able to do that, but the most critical thing for your OLB's is that they need to generate a strong and consistent pass rush, because without that the defense will collapse under the absence of a pass rush, unless you revert to an all or nothing strategy of running straight-up blitzes in order to try and pressure the QB, and that's playing with fire and you *will* get burned.

A 3-4 defense generally requires bigger LB's, as those LB's will have to deal with offensive linemen who are much, much larger than them. A 4-3 in theory has the advantage of creating pressure from your DL and thus freeing up your LB's for other duties beyond pass rushing (unless you've got a true freak like a Ratliff who's able able to generate massive QB pressure from the NT position in a base 3-4), while the 3-4 carries the advantage that the opposing OL isn't quite sure whom to block, as the pass rush can come from any area.

There's much more movement involved in the 3-4, more players behind the line of scrimmage which makes it that much more difficult for an offense to read. But you really need the right personnel to run it correctly (and that is essential), else you'll have to revert to blitzing in order to generate sufficient QB pressure, and that makes it very vulnerable to just a pounding run game straight up the gaps or middle, and especially vulnerable to the play-action pass ya know, one of those 8 yard flare-outs that turns into an 80 yard touchdown.

Anyway I'm babbling on, but great topic and nice article Doogie!
 




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