2025 Minnesota High School Football Thread

[mcrow47]

Also, if the cutoff is 313 adjusted, then Roseau and Norwood-YA should also be playing AAA and Redwood Valley should be the largest AA school. But both those schools are playing AA.

But I'm not seeing the same level of outrage there.

Why is Luverne playing AAA and Pillager AA when Pillager has five more students per the adjusted enrollment numbers? I don't know. Since this is only about football, maybe Pillager opted down because they have a class or two that is heavily female and so there are considerably fewer boys in that number? I don't know, but they are more or less the same size schools. A five student difference for two teams on the bubble between classes seems like a strange hill to die on.

That is an issue with schools up that direction at some schools where they have more of one or the other by a significant margin. I want to say there was a year in there a while back that Mahnomen where their senior and junior classes had like 70% girls. So if I remember correctly they were able to stay in class A even though they were over the enrollment since male enrollment was lower than the typical AA school would have. I might be mixing it up with another school but it was somewhere up that direction.

 

[Ranger692]

The real number doesn't matter though for classification. Pillager's number for 2023-2025 was indeed 298.

I agree with most of your opinions on adjusting enrollment numbers vs. using actual enrollment. I don't like it. But ultimately, it's the adjusted number that matters at this point for classification, and Pillager had under 300 for the previous period.

I'm not arguing about what the MSHSL says the adjusted numbers are. I did ask where they get those numbers now. There is no way to know what they are now, there really wasn't before. I know of a few schools hosting pizza parties to fill out the free and reduced paperwork to flub enrolment numbers in the past.

I believe MN is one of the only states where all teams make the playoffs. I believe MN is THE only state that adjusts the enrolment numbers, I could be wrong on that but when I talk with coaches from other states at clinics they look at me like I have 3 eyes when I tell them that.

 

[Random Guy 12]

That is an issue with schools up that direction at some schools where they have more of one or the other by a significant margin. I want to say there was a year in there a while back that Mahnomen where their senior and junior classes had like 70% girls. So if I remember correctly they were able to stay in class A even though they were over the enrollment since male enrollment was lower than the typical AA school would have. I might be mixing it up with another school but it was somewhere up that direction.

no one wants to be at the bottom of a class size wise but obviously someone has to be. I would think/hope that you would have to present a good reason to opt down in football. I have no idea what Pillagers reason would be.

 

[mcrow47]

no one wants to be at the bottom of a class size wise but obviously someone has to be. I would think/hope that you would have to present a good reason to opt down in football. I have no idea what Pillagers reason would be.

Me either, just have to trust that folks that make that discission had a good reason I guess . Unless someone here has direct knowledge of what the deal was I'm not really going to care about it that much. Could be a very understandable reason and not a conspiracy.

 

[Random Guy 12]

Me either, just have to trust that folks that make that discission had a good reason I guess . Unless someone here has direct knowledge of what the deal was I'm not really going to care about it that much. Could be a very understandable reason and not a conspiracy.

well of course it's going to draw some more attention as to why they were allowed to opt down if they advance a long ways or win a state title.

 

[mcrow47]

well of course it's going to draw some more attention as to why they were allowed to opt down if they advance a long ways or win a state title.

I get that but some of this stuff here is like conspiracy theory level. I think it's a perfectly normal thought process to just wonder why but to go on a rant about how there's some sort of conspiracy is a little much for me. Not saying you were doing that, though.

Too bad we don't have someone from Pillager who would know that could shed some light on it but all we have to go on is the MSHSL reviewed and came to the conclusion they're AA.

 

[GophersInIowa]

In the smaller classes, section 6AA is loaded. Holdingford finished 8-0 and will not get a bye. 4 teams 7-1 or better

The whole section of 7 teams only played 5 total games against each other. Crazy.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I find it interesting that the MSHSL isn't trying to get the number teams per section in the lower classes more equal. Looking at both 9p and class A section tournaments there are several teams that have byes as the 2 seed in a section and others that the #1 seed has to play. Now I understand that an 8 vs a 1 is not a game that is usually close. But you are opening up a 1 seed to injury in one section while giving 2 teams a break in al the next.

The teams with no bye have 4 games in 15 days that get to round 2, while teams with the bye only have had a 10 day break. That's a huge difference come state tournament time when some teams have had rest and others haven't but could have due to being a #1 seed just because the state decided your section has 8 and the next has 6

For 9 man at least, there's a big group of schools in the south and the rest are largely in the north with little in between. Trying to even out every section would mean some teams having to travel a long ways to play section games.

 

[disco]

I believe MN is THE only state that adjusts the enrolment numbers, I could be wrong on that but when I talk with coaches from other states at clinics they look at me like I have 3 eyes when I tell them that.

They may not publish adjusted enrollment, but 21 states use some kind of a formula to adjust classes.

A poll conducted for the March 2017 issue of High School Today revealed that 21 state associations use a multiplier or other plan to level the playing field among their schools. Among those were Indiana and its “tournament success factor;” Oregon, which had adopted a school socioeconomic status (SES) factor; and Ohio with its “Competitive Balance Plan.”

https://nfhs.org/stories/competitive-balance-of-schools-remains-issue-in-several-states

One way or another, a bunch of states are messing with competitive balance.

 

[mcrow47]

They may not publish adjusted enrollment, but 21 states use some kind of a formula to adjust classes.

A poll conducted for the March 2017 issue of High School Today revealed that 21 state associations use a multiplier or other plan to level the playing field among their schools. Among those were Indiana and its “tournament success factor;” Oregon, which had adopted a school socioeconomic status (SES) factor; and Ohio with its “Competitive Balance Plan.”

https://nfhs.org/stories/competitive-balance-of-schools-remains-issue-in-several-states

One way or another, a bunch of states are messing with competitive balance.

I figured it wasn't unusual but didn't have any proof.

And to me it makes sense. If a school has gender balance issues and/or poverty issues these are things that factually affect participation numbers. Usually the adjustment isn't that big and most of the time they stay in the same class but once in a while a school moves down if they were near the bottom of the class already.

Seems every once in a while there is a case like this that someone has an issue with, usually it's someone from one of the teams that thought they had a chance to win state that year otherwise. But most of these schools that get moved down due to these issues don't end up being top schools in the lower class either.

And I can hear the argument "Well if they know they're going to be good why let them move down?". The issue is it's high school sports. Outside of a few programs in each class you don't really know what you have until you played some games and Pillager might be good this year and graduate a bunch of good kids and next year not be very good.

 

[State of Football]

I'm not arguing about what the MSHSL says the adjusted numbers are. I did ask where they get those numbers now. There is no way to know what they are now, there really wasn't before. I know of a few schools hosting pizza parties to fill out the free and reduced paperwork to flub enrolment numbers in the past.

I believe MN is one of the only states where all teams make the playoffs. I believe MN is THE only state that adjusts the enrolment numbers, I could be wrong on that but when I talk with coaches from other states at clinics they look at me like I have 3 eyes when I tell them that.

Most states do not allow for appeals or opt ups. Not all can apply for an appeal. You need to greater than 50% free-reduced lunch population and or within 10% of the cut line.

Nevis and Mt Irondale Buhl are both over 160 in MSHSL enrollment, appealed and were denied. I’m assuming for past success?

If one believes St Paul Harding can compete against St Thomas academy in the same class, then you haven’t see the difference in student populations and the advantages of socio-economics. What our state does is not perfect, but it does try to give access where it belongs very two years.

Red Lake hasn’t won in 15+ years. They are closer to a 3A school than a 1A school.