Big Ten Coaches talk anonymously about other teams.

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GophersInIowa said:
Nah, I'd take 4-5, 4-5 and 7-2 in a 3 year period over 5-4, 5-4 and 5-4.
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So would everyone.
I think a better question is would you trade one up year for fewer overall wins.

7-2, 3-6, 2-7 vs 5-4, 5-4, 5-4

If that’s the order, people take the first but also fire the first coach
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
Nonsense. Judging a coach only by his best seasons is foolish. If a student gets two A grades, two C grades, and a D grade, he is not an A student. The only accurate way to fully evaluate a coach is on the overall record. A losing season is as depressing as a superior season is exhilarating.
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To each their own, but I over a four year stretch I would take:

11-2
4-8
12-2
5-7

Over
8-5
9-4
8-5
8-5

Coach two is a better by your standards, which is fair, but I would prefer the top option.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
Those equal the same number of wins and the same winning percentage over three years. That wasn't the case in the comparison between Fleck and Fitzgerald. Fleck clearly has had a greater overall winning percentage at Minnesota than Fitzgerald had at Northwestern.
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I was responding specifically to your statement that a losing season is as depressing as a superior season is exhilarating. I don't think that is true at all. Maybe a better comparison is going 2-7, 7-2, 2-7, 7-2, etc is better than going 5-4 every year. The fun of a 7-2 season outweighs the frustration of a 2-7 season in this example IMO.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I get the feeling more and more that Fleck is well respected overall. Sure some don't like his Row the Boat and everything else. But he has a system that works well for him.
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Fleck is the 2nd most tenured coach in the conference now after only Kirk Ferentz. I would hope he's finally been accepted by all.

Besides, there's nothing at all about his approach that should ruffle any feathers. Row the Boat is just a reworking of Greg Schiano's CHOP mantra. Seriously, put them side-by-side. F.A.M.I.L.Y. is also a Schiano thing. He dresses like Jim Tressel and runs an offense like him too.

PJ Fleck is a model of consistency and stability at Minnesota and he's just emulating his mentors who were not controversial guys among Big Ten coaches.
 

I like Fitzgerald and he did a great job at Northwestern, which has to be the most difficult program to have sustained success in the entire conference.

However, comparing Fitz with Fleck in the era of Portal + NIL is not possible at this point. Fitz crashed out at Northwestern once the portal/NIL era really kicked into high gear. Fleck has transitioned pretty well in the new era. It will be interesting to see how Fitzgerald does at Michigan State in order to really get a comparison in the new landscape.
 

PJ has been a very good stabilizing coach for the U. We have promise, we win consistently and have a program full of good young men that play their heart out.

We will most likely never be a program that consistently competes for the B1G Title and I am fine with that fact. Teams that are at that level need to be happy with buying all of the talent they can get and throwing away any current players on the trash heap. I do not think that fits with the culture that PJ has established here at Minnesota.

The U is built on developing players on and off the field. Players that love the game, work hard and build on their character to be good men. Yes, the U will bring in some transfers to fill holes, but they will not buy some "hot shot" to come in and replace their productive starting players. Imagine the damage to your culture if you constantly bring in starters to step in front of your good developing players that have been loyal to the program for years. I am not talking about limiting competition, but giving the developing players the playing time they have earned through their hard work and doing everything that was expected of them. Of course, not all young players will work out. Most of them know that and will either transfer out or fill their role as a backup to other players (possibly a transfer).
 



gopherbadgerman said:
To each their own, but I over a four year stretch I would take:

11-2
4-8
12-2
5-7

Over
8-5
9-4
8-5
8-5

Coach two is a better by your standards, which is fair, but I would prefer the top option.
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You wouldn't prefer the top option in years two and four. I wager youd be one calling for his head those years.
 

mngg11 said:
You wouldn't prefer the top option in years two and four. I wager youd be one calling for his head those years.
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Would people rather have Illinois last 30 years or Minnesotas.

It’s a really good question and probably depends on the person.
 

Some guy said:
Would people rather have Illinois last 30 years or Minnesotas.

It’s a really good question and probably depends on the person.
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I've argued elsewhere that we've hit the Fleck ceiling and that we ought to satisfy ourselves with mediocre expectations so I won't repeat any of that here. But I bring it up only because so many people point to 2019 as rebuttle for my assertion. The fact that 2019 is still, all these years later, a nirvana for so maybe lends itself to the theory that most would take a deeper trough or longer period of generally poor seasons if there were occasionally higher peaks. I think I would but then again, my wife chides me for ordering a bacon cheeseburger each and every time we go out to eat.
 

swede2 said:
I've argued elsewhere that we've hit the Fleck ceiling and that we ought to satisfy ourselves with mediocre expectations so I won't repeat any of that here. But I bring it up only because so many people point to 2019 as rebuttle for my assertion. The fact that 2019 is still, all these years later, a nirvana for so maybe lends itself to the theory that most would take a deeper trough or longer period of generally poor seasons if there were occasionally higher peaks. I think I would but then again, my wife chides me for ordering a bacon cheeseburger each and every time we go out to eat.
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I think for those that stick around that may be true
But there are also many who would simply stop following in the lean years.

I pick Illinois because they’ve been awful but had a big ten title in 2000 and a rose bowl in a 9-3 season in the middle of the awful
 



I'll take PJs program of developing not just the football side but the life side. I enjoy not reading about players being arrested downtown, or getting accused of sexual assault. I like seeing stories of players visiting hospitals, schools and handing out turkeys. I like that our team has a chance in every game! I like seeing kids from the region playing for golden Gophers! I like that players come back to visit the program and have been successful not just in football but in life. I will take a coach like PJ any day over any other. I appreciate the whole of the program not just the football on Saturdays! I also think we'll have a hell of a team this year! SKI U MAH GO GOPHERS!
 

Some guy said:
Would people rather have Illinois last 30 years or Minnesotas.

It’s a really good question and probably depends on the person.
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I would take Minnesota's over Ill. Not high enough highs.

But for example would take MSU over MN easy.
 


Some guy said:
Michigan state isn’t really a good mental exercise

Northwestern and Illinois kind of are
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To each their own I guess. I would take NW over Illinois - but I think NW Rose bowl might be more than 30 years ago...I think 94 or 95 cant remember.

NW and MN would be close for me, I lean MN but that might be the homer in me.
 

Northwestern had a good run in the middle of the Fitzgerald era where they finished in the top 25 in 5 of 9 seasons. In the 4 seasons they didn't finish in the top 25 of that run, they were a combined 10-24 in the Big Ten. They went 42-34 overall in the Big Ten in those 9 seasons.

Hypothetically, say the Gophers go 6-3 this season in the BT, that would put them at 43-36 in conference in the last 9 years. I would probably take the Fitzgerald example over what we've gotten the past 9 years but it's close.

However, I do think what Fleck has established is more sustainable. And I still think we are capable of being a top 25 team 2 out of every 3 seasons.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Northwestern had a good run in the middle of the Fitzgerald era where they finished in the top 25 in 5 of 9 seasons. In the 4 seasons they didn't finish in the top 25 of that run, they were a combined 10-24 in the Big Ten. They went 42-34 overall in the Big Ten in those 9 seasons.

Hypothetically, say the Gophers go 6-3 this season in the BT, that would put them at 43-36 in conference in the last 9 years. I would probably take the Fitzgerald example over what we've gotten the past 9 years but it's close.

However, I do think what Fleck has established is more sustainable. And I still think we are capable of being a top 25 team 2 out of every 3 seasons.
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Totally fair opinion and comparison. Your information makes me tend to agree with you, and I do think that Fleck has built something fairly sustainable. Going off 9 year comparables I would take NW. Over the past 30 its maybe a bit tougher, NW had some really bad teams. (Guess MN did too)
 

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gopherbadgerman said:
To each their own I guess. I would take NW over Illinois - but I think NW Rose bowl might be more than 30 years ago...I think 94 or 95 cant remember.

NW and MN would be close for me, I lean MN but that might be the homer in me.
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yeah I was just saying Michigan state so clear cut there is no debate

Illinois and northwestern may be close
 

Soon2B8 said:
I'll take PJs program of developing not just the football side but the life side. I enjoy not reading about players being arrested downtown, or getting accused of sexual assault. I like seeing stories of players visiting hospitals, schools and handing out turkeys. I like that our team has a chance in every game! I like seeing kids from the region playing for golden Gophers! I like that players come back to visit the program and have been successful not just in football but in life. I will take a coach like PJ any day over any other. I appreciate the whole of the program not just the football on Saturdays! I also think we'll have a hell of a team this year! SKI U MAH GO GOPHERS!
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I suppose a guy’s gotta appreciate your sunny outlook on things, but Iowa had us 31 to nothing at the half last year and could’ve beat us 60 to nothing if Ferentz hadn’t been completely bored in the second half. PJ has a long way to go yet on game day the other stuff is a nice to have but competency on game days a little more often is a must have.
 

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