Medved: I may be unpopular by saying this, but I feel like at some point we’re going to have to get to some sort of collectively bargained model.

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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Per Greder:

Medved said he supports paying players, but the unwieldy prices need a framework.

“I may be unpopular by saying this, but I feel like at some point we’re going to have to get to some sort of collectively bargained model,” he said.

www.twincities.com

Gophers’ Niko Medved: Portal prices are ‘outrageous,’ change needed

“Markets rarely ever go down.” the UMN men’s basketball coach said. “Sometimes they are forced to go down, but I think everyone knew that it’d (get) more expensive.”
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Per Greder:

Medved said he supports paying players, but the unwieldy prices need a framework.

“I may be unpopular by saying this, but I feel like at some point we’re going to have to get to some sort of collectively bargained model,” he said.

www.twincities.com

Gophers’ Niko Medved: Portal prices are ‘outrageous,’ change needed

“Markets rarely ever go down.” the UMN men’s basketball coach said. “Sometimes they are forced to go down, but I think everyone knew that it’d (get) more expensive.”
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...
I don't think that is unpopular at all.
 

Agreed, Niko but the challenge I see is that the membership of the CB unit turns over so quickly that it’s hard to believe anyone is thinking beyond a few years. And you might have to twist a lot of arms of the bottomless money barrel programs to ever agree.

It strikes me that enforceable contracts with individuals is a more attainable goal to bring some sanity back.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I don't think that is unpopular at all.
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Popular with coaches, administrations and anyone that wants to see some sort of structure and sanity injected into the system.

Not popular with players and agents out to get whatever they can from this backwards world of unrestricted free agency every year for every player.
 

Holy Man said:
Agreed, Niko but the challenge I see is that the membership of the CB unit turns over so quickly that it’s hard to believe anyone is thinking beyond a few years. And you might have to twist a lot of arms of the bottomless money barrel programs to ever agree.

It strikes me that enforceable contracts with individuals is a more attainable goal to bring some sanity back.
Click to expand...

Holy Man said:
Good point on the schools with lots of $$$. When Michigan, NC, Texas, Indiana, Kentucky, and others have $20 million while the Gophers have $7 million, it’s not an even playing field. It is the same thing happening in MLB and in society as a whole. Those at the top keep getting more and more, while everyone else struggles to pay the bills. None of that is sustainable IMO. Sadly, getting an education is now far down the list and seems almost quaint.
Click to expand...
 




Would definitely be better for the game looking like it used to

Problem with collective bargaining in college sports, even if a union formed and a bargain was struck

Janis says you can’t force someone to enter a union.
Anti price fixing laws say you can’t price fix.

So quite frankly there isn’t any entity to strike a deal with
 

Some guy said:
Would definitely be better for the game looking like it used to

Problem with collective bargaining in college sports, even if a union formed and a bargain was struck

Janis says you can’t force someone to enter a union.
Anti price fixing laws say you can’t price fix.

So quite frankly there isn’t any entity to strike a deal with
Click to expand...
But you could have a salary cap...legally.
 






60's Guy said:
However the NBA, NFL and NHL do it.
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(1) They are going to have an issue with defining a class in college sports. The NFL, NBA, NHL teams (and therefore players) are all similarly situated. Would it be a Big 10 only thing? Big 10 and SEC? Who gets have a say - every player or just the players who are set to make a lot of money?

(2) Keep in mind, there is no salary cap for third party deals. Lebron can make a trillion dollars from private corporations. NIL deals will absolutely explode if there is a CBA.

The NCAA is not situated like the NBA, NFL, or NHL. Could some sort of CBA be possible? I guess, in theory. But it's not as simple as following their models.
 



Holy Man said:
Agreed, Niko but the challenge I see is that the membership of the CB unit turns over so quickly that it’s hard to believe anyone is thinking beyond a few years. And you might have to twist a lot of arms of the bottomless money barrel programs to ever agree.

It strikes me that enforceable contracts with individuals is a more attainable goal to bring some sanity back.
Click to expand...
Because the Genie is out of the bottle, this will be like trying to convince the Dodgers and the Yankees and the union to accept a salary cap.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
(1) They are going to have an issue with defining a class in college sports. The NFL, NBA, NHL teams (and therefore players) are all similarly situated. Would it be a Big 10 only thing? Big 10 and SEC? Who gets have a say - every player or just the players who are set to make a lot of money?

(2) Keep in mind, there is no salary cap for third party deals. Lebron can make a trillion dollars from private corporations. NIL deals will absolutely explode if there is a CBA.

The NCAA is not situated like the NBA, NFL, or NHL. Could some sort of CBA be possible? I guess, in theory. But it's not as simple as following their models.
Click to expand...
Bottom line...it's a mess without an easy solution. Something will change...it can't continue on the path it is on...what IDK.
Thanks for laying it out there.
 

You can't use endorsements in pro sports to circumvent the salary cap. The Clippers did this with Leonard and got caught. I think there would be a way to say NIL deals from University donors count against the cap. But who knows.
 

howeda7 said:
You can't use endorsements in pro sports to circumvent the salary cap. The Clippers did this with Leonard and got caught. I think there would be a way to say NIL deals from University donors count against the cap. But who knows.
Click to expand...
What about those who aren't "University donors"?

The case you mentioned is more obvious because it involves the owner of the team. But nonetheless, the commissioner said the investigation is "enormously complex" and it started with a whistleblower. It started last September and it still ongoing. So for college, you'd have to have whistleblowers all over, which you might find some as players/coaches move around, but if the Leonard situation takes this much time, the college season will be long over before any investigation gets going and most likely the new one will be starting and whatever group is "investigating" will be up to their eyeballs pretty quickly.

Even though it's kinda obvious boosters would be paying "pay 4 play", but if they aren't associated with the school then it's hard to concretely prove that it was to circumvent the cap.

For example, Joe Mauer had a deal with Kemps. Was that to circumvent the Twins salary cap or was it because Kemps found value in using his image. Common sense would say the latter, but you can't prove one way or the other.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
What about those who aren't "University donors"?

The case you mentioned is more obvious because it involves the owner of the team. But nonetheless, the commissioner said the investigation is "enormously complex" and it started with a whistleblower. It started last September and it still ongoing. So for college, you'd have to have whistleblowers all over, which you might find some as players/coaches move around, but if the Leonard situation takes this much time, the college season will be long over before any investigation gets going and most likely the new one will be starting and whatever group is "investigating" will be up to their eyeballs pretty quickly.

Even though it's kinda obvious boosters would be paying "pay 4 play", but if they aren't associated with the school then it's hard to concretely prove that it was to circumvent the cap.

For example, Joe Mauer had a deal with Kemps. Was that to circumvent the Twins salary cap or was it because Kemps found value in using his image. Common sense would say the latter, but you can't prove one way or the other.
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It's certainly more complicated, but I don't think there's no way to enforce some rules. You can probably never stop legit NIL deals. You can stop the blatantly obvious pay for play ones, or at least say that they have to count against the school's limit.
 

howeda7 said:
You can stop the blatantly obvious pay for play ones, or at least say that they have to count against the school's limit.
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The whole point of my post was to say, "no you can't". If a rich millionaire isn't affiliated with the school it's impossible to prove it is "pay 4 play" even though common sense says it is.

What you know and what you can concretely prove aren't always the same.

EDIT: lemme state it like this. Let's say I'm a booster and all I want to do is attract top players with massive "pay 4 play" deals. If some entity comes along and says this isn't valid and needs to be counted against the cap, the first thing I would say is "what makes it invalid". Upon hearing the answer, I would immediately change the language of the contract to remove the parts the governing entity didn't like, therefore making it "valid" again.

Multi-millionaire boosters can play this game all day long - simply change the terms every time it is deemed invalid. The "governing entity" will just be tooooo backed up in casework to accomplish anything.

How could you or anyone else possibly stop such trickery? I simply don't think anyone can.
 
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howeda7 said:
You can't use endorsements in pro sports to circumvent the salary cap. The Clippers did this with Leonard and got caught. I think there would be a way to say NIL deals from University donors count against the cap. But who knows.
Click to expand...
The Clippers were circumventing the rules. Ballmer donated $50 million to Aspiration for a no-show job (Kawhi was then paid $50 million). If Aspiration said, "we'd like to offer you $50 million for promotion because we love the Clippers", they are free to do that. The CBA does not apply to contracts between players and third parties, this was seen as a mere pass through.

For this to slow down NIL, the University of MN would have to pay a booster to then offer that money to a recruit. NIL is actually the exact opposite of that. Just like Aspiration, the CBA would not apply to contracts between third parties and recruits.

You're not wrong though. They can do some enforcement - I'm not sure if coordination between boosters and schools would be enough. It's just really tough to police contracts/deals between entities who never agreed to the CBA.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
The whole point of my post was to say, "no you can't". If a rich millionaire isn't affiliated with the school it's impossible to prove it is "pay 4 play" even though common sense says it is.

What you know and what you can concretely prove aren't always the same.

EDIT: lemme state it like this. Let's say I'm a booster and all I want to do is attract top players with massive "pay 4 play" deals. If some entity comes along and says this isn't valid and needs to be counted against the cap, the first thing I would say is "what makes it invalid". Upon hearing the answer, I would immediately change the language of the contract to remove the parts the governing entity didn't like, therefore making it "valid" again.

Multi-millionaire boosters can play this game all day long - simply change the terms every time it is deemed invalid. The "governing entity" will just be tooooo backed up in casework to accomplish anything.

How could you or anyone else possibly stop such trickery? I simply don't think anyone can.
Click to expand...
The genie is out of the bottle with NCAA basically letting an "anything goes" policy and washing their hands of any responsibility with a goal of not getting sued. What we have now should result in reparations paid to SMU for enforcing the Death Penalty for the "transgressions" which are chump-change compared to what is happening now.
Where they missed the point, is how the NIL concept originally game about. If the NCAA didn't license a video game with Ed O'Bannon's picture on the cover or just paid him at the time (which is what he sued for), who knows where we would be now.
NCAA has basically messed up the entire "student-athlete" foundation (farce) and will never recover. They should just admit they are a semi-pro league with University affiliation/ownership, appoint a commission to enact rules, including salary caps. Where the mess really hits reality is the impossible task of trying to collective bargain with the thousands of non-affiliated/unregulated athletes.
 

WHB Brewer said:
Where the mess really hits reality is the impossible task of trying to collective bargain with the thousands of non-affiliated/unregulated athletes.
Click to expand...
Yes, this. I can't envision any scenario where you could even begin. The opposite side of the table (athletes) have no incentive and the schools, or conferences, or NCAA have no position of strength to negotiate from.

NFL/NBA etc. owners can threaten a lock out because they have the finances to withstand one. It would be laughable to watch a University threaten to not have a football season a lose out on all that revenue. Everyone knows they would cave and let the games be played.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You're not wrong though. They can do some enforcement - I'm not sure if coordination between boosters and schools would be enough. It's just really tough to police contracts/deals between entities who never agreed to the CBA.
Click to expand...
The enforcement piece is far and away the biggest hurdle. In the pro leagues there is structure due to the owners and the limited number of teams all contained in the same league with a vested interest to at least have some standards to keep teams on a similar footing even if it isn't equal between teams. They are all still playing by the same rules.

NCAA is so much bigger and spreadout. To get all the programs agreeing to the same set of rules where it comes to paying players feels next to impossible at this point.

Only way it feels even possible to me would be if you had a set of rules put in place by all the power 4 football programs. And a similar deal for the major basketball conferences. Basically all the schools with money agreeing to play by the same rules. But that is a massive undertaking with all kinds of ways for it to fall apart.

Everyone knows the current system is broken but fixing it is going to be really really difficult. I hope it happens but not holding my breath.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
(1) They are going to have an issue with defining a class in college sports. The NFL, NBA, NHL teams (and therefore players) are all similarly situated. Would it be a Big 10 only thing? Big 10 and SEC? Who gets have a say - every player or just the players who are set to make a lot of money?

(2) Keep in mind, there is no salary cap for third party deals. Lebron can make a trillion dollars from private corporations. NIL deals will absolutely explode if there is a CBA.

The NCAA is not situated like the NBA, NFL, or NHL. Could some sort of CBA be possible? I guess, in theory. But it's not as simple as following their models.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in theory having a CBA and salary caps looks reasonable...until you try to get it done.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, in theory having a CBA and salary caps looks reasonable...until you try to get it done.
Click to expand...
The Football and Basketball Conferences and the Universities will likely need to lockout the players, telling them that unless they agree to a CBA there will be no college football or basketball. Something has to give.
 

FinnGopher said:
The Football and Basketball Conferences and the Universities will likely need to lockout the players, telling them that unless they agree to a CBA there will be no college football or basketball. Something has to give.
Click to expand...
Half the conferences would disappear, if by some miracle they all got on the same page.
 

BleedGopher said:
Per Greder:

Medved said he supports paying players, but the unwieldy prices need a framework.

“I may be unpopular by saying this, but I feel like at some point we’re going to have to get to some sort of collectively bargained model,” he said.

www.twincities.com

Gophers’ Niko Medved: Portal prices are ‘outrageous,’ change needed

“Markets rarely ever go down.” the UMN men’s basketball coach said. “Sometimes they are forced to go down, but I think everyone knew that it’d (get) more expensive.”
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...
That used to be what was called a scholarship.
 


My proposal had always been to pay players a standard stipend from revenue shared among all Division 1 schools. I think that would have worked, but now the dang genie is out of the dang bottle.
 

FinnGopher said:
The Football and Basketball Conferences and the Universities will likely need to lockout the players, telling them that unless they agree to a CBA there will be no college football or basketball.
Click to expand...
Consider the financial panic from 2020 when universities thought they might miss out on a season's worth of football revenue. They have zero leverage.

But besides that, define "football conferences". If the B1G was in favor of a lockout, do you think the SEC would really follow suit when the other option is to raid the rosters of Ohio State, Oregon, etc.? If I was on Oregon and I thought they wouldn't play, I'd bolt to a new school. Plus, you'd piss off all the NIL donors that paid for those players to enroll at the school only to not play football. Our donors aren't much, but the deep-pocketed ones at other schools would throw a fit.

Do you really think you can get multiple conferences to all agree at the same time??? They can't even agree on how many teams to put in the playoff or whether or not their should be conference championship game.

FinnGopher said:
Something has to give.
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Yeah, it'll be people giving up on the idea that anything resembling the old way will ever come back.
 

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