What's Next 26-27 Roster

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60's Guy said:
So, when I pondered your entry I had to look at the Final Four season. (2003-04) We barely got into the NCAA Tournament. Definitely did not remember we finished in 6th place in the conference. We did win our first game in the conference tournament but lost our second....also underwhelming. View attachment 43757View attachment 43758

Gracie Merkle, on paper surpasses McCarville's stats. I watched this team practice on many occasions. This incoming roster is better on paper with one big obvious exception...maybe we got a Whalen on the roster who emerges but that's a huge missing difference. Maybe we do it by committee....lots of candidates to be very good. The 2003-04 group did work hard. In addition, Schonrock shot 3 after 3 EVERY day after practice. They were focused and serious about improving.
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Merkle was on a lousy team so she was able pad her stats. McCarville shared the spotlight with Whalen. McCarville was a superb passer and solid rebounder. I'd take her over Merkle any day.
 


Gophermangeek said:
Whalen missed 7 games to injury where they went 3-4 in those games. Gophers were probably a 2 seed if Whalen didn’t get hurt. Just for some context
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...and, even before the Gophers knocked off #1 seed Duke, every team in the tournament knew that, with a healthy Whalen, the Gophers were way under-seeded. I recall Duke's coach, Gail Goestenkors, saying that her team prepared for the NCAAs by practicing matchups against all the teams they might see in the final 16, and the Gophers were one of them.
 

The key will be not losing anyone in the fall like Heyer.

Then again, if that happens, it might indicate someone stepped up and took someone's spot.
 

60's Guy said:
Gophermangeek's roster:
PG: Leah Harmon (UCF transfer)
SG: Mara Braun
SF: Tori McKinney
PF: Grace Grocholski
C: Gracie Merkle 6'6" (Penn State transfer)
6th: Tayla Thomas (Northwestern transfer) 6'3"
7th: Natalie Kussow
8th: Makena Christian
9th: Taylor Woodson
10th: Tori Orehlien
11th: Zoey Bersher
12th: Kennedy Klick
13th: Kylee Paben
14th: Adit Kuol
15th: Brynn Senden
On paper, gotta be the best roster since the Final Four team? or no?
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I believe the current roster may be as good as if not better. It could come down to the intangibles... Whalen & McCarville worked magic together... they always knew where the other was on the floor. Whalen was a great floor 'general' and had wonderful vision.

But, from a talent perspective, I think this team might be better.
 


Not trying to be negative here but outside of 3 players. The other 12 players have played a combined 9 minutes of NCAA tournament basketball.

I love every add and I’m high on the potential of the bench but at the moment it’s all hypothetical. We don’t know how the freshman are going to be, we don’t know how the 3 new transfers will mesh with the core, and Woodson coming off 2 ACL tears.

I love the potential of this team, I mean I said F4 is possible. But a lot of that comes with the reliance on players that have not played in big college games producing
 

Gophermangeek said:
Whalen missed 7 games to injury where they went 3-4 in those games. Gophers were probably a 2 seed if Whalen didn’t get hurt. Just for some context
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Ah, yes, thank you...coming back now...broke her wrist or sprained it real bad...had a cast...amirite?
 

BBJones said:
Merkle was on a lousy team so she was able pad her stats. McCarville shared the spotlight with Whalen. McCarville was a superb passer and solid rebounder. I'd take her over Merkle any day.
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McCarville was awesome, no argument there. I have not actually seen Merkle play...just going on stats.
Guessing you are 100% correct.
 

AllEars said:
I believe the current roster may be as good as if not better. It could come down to the intangibles... Whalen & McCarville worked magic together... they always knew where the other was on the floor. Whalen was a great floor 'general' and had wonderful vision.

But, from a talent perspective, I think this team might be better.
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Yup, i'd say that is a great summary! I agree with you.
 




BBJones said:
Merkle was on a lousy team so she was able pad her stats. McCarville shared the spotlight with Whalen. McCarville was a superb passer and solid rebounder. I'd take her over Merkle any day.
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Agree with your comments regarding McCarville... her stats and play during the tournament was wonderful. It was a joy to watch each and every game in person.

I will make my assessment about McCarville over Merkle any day after the season.
 

thatjanelpick said:
...and, even before the Gophers knocked off #1 seed Duke, every team in the tournament knew that, with a healthy Whalen, the Gophers were way under-seeded. I recall Duke's coach, Gail Goestenkors, saying that her team prepared for the NCAAs by practicing matchups against all the teams they might see in the final 16, and the Gophers were one of them.
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Duke was not prepared for McCarville
 

Gophermangeek said:
Not trying to be negative here but outside of 3 players. The other 12 players have played a combined 9 minutes of NCAA tournament basketball.
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How many NCAA tourney minutes had any of our team played prior to this season🤷‍♂️
Gophermangeek said:
I love every add and I’m high on the potential of the bench but at the moment it’s all hypothetical. We don’t know how the freshman are going to be, we don’t know how the 3 new transfers will mesh with the core, and Woodson coming off 2 ACL tears.

I love the potential of this team, I mean I said F4 is possible. But a lot of that comes with the reliance on players that have not played in big college games producing
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
How many NCAA tourney minutes had any of our team played prior to this season🤷‍♂️
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Right. If next season is anything like this one, at least half of the Big Ten teams will be ranked at some point throughout the season, and at least four or five will be ranked in the top ten at one point. Big Ten play is more than enough to prepare players for what NCAA tournament competition will be like.

And it's honestly way more important that Dawn and her staff have been to the Sweet Sixteen twice now and can teach the players what it's like to get there. Players come and go, but the experienced staff is the steady constant.
 

Suggesting Merkle is anywhere near McCarville is a case of recency bias on turbo mode, y'all. Besides FG% and points, McCarville clears everything else by miles. To be charitable, if you go to per 40 mins instead of per game, rebounds gets close, I guess.

Merkle's Penn St O-rating is 3 better than McCarville's was for the Gophers (116 to 113), but McCarville's last three years average D-rating was 74.2 and Merkle's average of PSU years are at 102.4! The other advanced stats make the differences even more stark. Merkle is a very efficient post scorer. McCarville could control the flow of an entire game on both ends.

The same goes for suggesting the current roster is better than one with a future Hall of Famer and another with a decade+ pro career on it. They took a team with Diana freaking Taurasi on it (and 5 total future WNBA'ers on it) to the wire. We just played a team that had 6 players drafted and they absolutely dismantled us when they locked in, and multiple times at that.

We look like we're going to be quite good next year on paper, but we don't have to get silly with it!
 

Plus, McCarville set a mean pick. The ears of that poor Boilermaker are probably still ringing. (I remember it as being against Purdue, but I could be wrong. In any event, it looked like she ran into a brick wall.)
 


I have had season tickets since Whalen’s 1st year. McCarville set those mid court picks frequently in her career. Arms calmly folded on her chest n Boom ! Down went the oppositions PG. I think I should have felt badly for them but
 

I have had season tickets since Whalen’s 1st year. McCarville set those mid court picks frequently in her career. Arms calmly folded on her chest n Boom ! Down went the oppositions PG. I think I should have felt badly for them but
 






fej said:
Suggesting Merkle is anywhere near McCarville is a case of recency bias on turbo mode, y'all. Besides FG% and points, McCarville clears everything else by miles. To be charitable, if you go to per 40 mins instead of per game, rebounds gets close, I guess.

Merkle's Penn St O-rating is 3 better than McCarville's was for the Gophers (116 to 113), but McCarville's last three years average D-rating was 74.2 and Merkle's average of PSU years are at 102.4! The other advanced stats make the differences even more stark. Merkle is a very efficient post scorer. McCarville could control the flow of an entire game on both ends.

The same goes for suggesting the current roster is better than one with a future Hall of Famer and another with a decade+ pro career on it. They took a team with Diana freaking Taurasi on it (and 5 total future WNBA'ers on it) to the wire. We just played a team that had 6 players drafted and they absolutely dismantled us when they locked in, and multiple times at that.

We look like we're going to be quite good next year on paper, but we don't have to get silly with it!
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Can't make a good argument against your post. Facts are facts, but sometime there is more underneath.

I remember talking to a co-worker (who fancied himself quite a bb player) in 2004 about good Whalen played... his comment was he wished he could play her 1:1. My comment back was it's not important how she played against him, but how she compares to her peers, he acknowledged the difference.

My point being would McCarville, at 6'2", be as dominant today as she was 22 years ago? The Women's game has improved so much, the players are stronger, faster, and bigger... and probably coached better. She could be just as dominant... a very smart player. I believe she described herself as a 'point-post' because of her excellent passing skills.

I made earlier comment about perhaps this team being more talented. Maybe 'talented' isn't the right word... but I would say more balanced. We struggled with McCarville on the bench with early foul trouble, as often happened, or when Whalen was hurt. I believe this team is more resilient.
 
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AllEars said:
Can't make a good argument against your post. Facts are facts, but sometime there is more underneath.

I remember talking to a co-worker (who fancied himself quite a bb player) in 2004 about good Whalen played... his comment was he wished he could play her 1:1. My comment back was it's not important how she played against him, but how she compares to her peers, he acknowledged the difference.

My point being would McCarville, at 6'2", be as dominant today as she was 22 years ago? The Women's game has improved so much, the players are stronger, faster, and bigger... and probably coached better. She could be just as dominant... a very smart player. I believe she described herself as a 'point-post' because of her excellent passing skills.

I made earlier comment about perhaps this team being more talented. Maybe 'talented' isn't the right word... but I would say more balanced. We struggled with McCarville on the bench with early foul trouble, as often happened, or when Whalen was hurt. I believe this team is more resilient.
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More balanced I can see for sure and the record when Whalen was out with the hand backs that up. McKinney was sort of like that in terms of importance to the squad this year, but unless injuries curse us again we look to be better positioned on that front next year.

(Can’t wait to see how Kussow looks with the transition, as to my untrained eye in the WI state tourney she looked ready to be a bench contributor at the very least to help with the offensive production parts, if not the defensive parts, if McKinney is out or foul trouble. Taller athletic player with a high motor that can shoot it? Let’s goooo)

As for the different eras that’s always a fun convo. McCarville would also have had the coaching and the training so I think the strength advantage would still translate, but most importantly she would have been surrounded with better 3pt shooting across positions. Some of the teams she was on in the W showed how deadly her passing was in that set up. But add a bunch more teams with pick and pop bigs during her college years really spreading the floor, does the defense hold up? Maybe, maybe not?
 

fej said:
More balanced I can see for sure and the record when Whalen was out with the hand backs that up. McKinney was sort of like that in terms of importance to the squad this year, but unless injuries curse us again we look to be better positioned on that front next year.

(Can’t wait to see how Kussow looks with the transition, as to my untrained eye in the WI state tourney she looked ready to be a bench contributor at the very least to help with the offensive production parts, if not the defensive parts, if McKinney is out or foul trouble. Taller athletic player with a high motor that can shoot it? Let’s goooo)

As for the different eras that’s always a fun convo. McCarville would also have had the coaching and the training so I think the strength advantage would still translate, but most importantly she would have been surrounded with better 3pt shooting across positions. Some of the teams she was on in the W showed how deadly her passing was in that set up. But add a bunch more teams with pick and pop bigs during her college years really spreading the floor, does the defense hold up? Maybe, maybe not?
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Thanks for the conv... you make good points.
 
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AllEars said:
I believe the current roster may be as good as if not better. It could come down to the intangibles... Whalen & McCarville worked magic together... they always knew where the other was on the floor. Whalen was a great floor 'general' and had wonderful vision.

But, from a talent perspective, I think this team might be better.
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It is hard to compare eras, but. . . . Two, three-time All Big Ten first teamers, and two 2-3 time All-Americans, and two career WNBA players, etc. vs no Big Ten first teamers and no likely or no sure-fire WNBA potential. (I do cross my fingers for Battle).
 

walleye said:
It is hard to compare eras, but. . . . Two, three-time All Big Ten first teamers, and two 2-3 time All-Americans, and two career WNBA players, etc. vs no Big Ten first teamers and no likely or no sure-fire WNBA potential. (I do cross my fingers for Battle).
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Both Whalen and McCarville have the credentials and I see those credentials hanging in Williams Arena at every game I attend. They were great individually and as a pair. As a pair, they have no equals to date... IMO.
 


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