The Athletic: NBA expansion? League has issues to fix before thinking about Seattle, Las Vegas

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Per The Athletic:

Expansion? The NBA should try building more trust in the current product first.

As David Aldridge and Mike Vorkunov recently reported, the league is taking the next step on possible expansion to 32 teams. League governors will vote on March 25 to determine whether to move forward with exploring Las Vegas and Seattle as potential expansion markets.

Momentum seems to be building toward it, but expansion would be a bad idea — at least for now. The league already has too many bad teams. It already has too many bad games.

Show me you can field 30 competitive teams before expanding to 32.

Even with all the talent across the NBA, the league still produces an overwhelming amount of ugly basketball, especially at this point in the season. It’s March Madness for college basketball, but March Sadness for the long list of NBA teams that have already given up. Can anyone outside of Memphis name the Grizzlies’ top five scorers for March?

Heck, I’m sure not many people outside of Memphis even know that Rayan Rupert, fourth on that list, exists. The list includes Ty Jerome, Jaylen Wells, GG Jackson, Rupert and Javon Small. It’s no shock that the Grizzlies have dropped seven straight games. Entering Tuesday’s games, only the Wizards (11) and Pacers (13) had longer active losing streaks.

I’m not someone who yearns for the days of brutish post-ups and inefficient midrange jumpers. In some ways, I believe the NBA is in a better place than ever. Players are more skilled. They are more athletic. Even most big guys can put the ball on the floor. Some people complain about the style of basketball these days. I love the way many of the best teams play. They move the ball to find open shots. They pressure full-court to wear down opponents. They shoot from all over the court and use the extra space to attack. Many teams these days play the beautiful game.

Still, you can’t watch the bottom third of the league this season and believe the answer is diluting each team further with expansion. To make expansion work, commissioner Adam Silver would need to fix the NBA’s biggest current problems first, including tanking. Since he has shown no ability to do so with 30 teams in the league, he should avoid complicating the process by adding two more teams. Expansion would thin out NBA rosters, some of which are already plenty bleak.

www.nytimes.com

NBA expansion? League has issues to fix before thinking about Seattle, Las Vegas

The NBA has problems and without fixes, expansion will only make them worse.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Howl Wolves!!
 

Looks like this is moving forward. I can't say I approve, I wish they would go somewhere else other than southern Nevada.

 

Ogie Ogilthorpe said:
Looks like this is moving forward. I can't say I approve, I wish they would go somewhere else other than southern Nevada.

Click to expand...
I know you're not really a hoops fan but why are you opposed? Another taxpayer funded arena?
 

Slim Tubby said:
I know you're not really a hoops fan but why are you opposed? Another taxpayer funded arena?
Click to expand...

I'm a big believer in "market saturation". I could be way, way off, 100% wrong, but I've always kind of felt this way.

I think some of the teams in MSP suffer because of so many other options. I think Gopher football suffers to a small extent because of the Vikings (and I love them both). Gopher basketball probably suffers because of the T-Wolves.

I believe people have a finite amount of resources for spending on entertainment. I think that also lends itself to diluting the interest in multiple teams. The finite resources element might be less of an issue in a place like Las Vegas than other markets, but people will still probably have to make choices.

For Las Vegas, I knew the first pro franchise, whatever it was going to be, was going to be massive hit. People wanted it. Wanted it bad. And VGK was the hottest ticket in town and it still is a really good ticket. The city adopted them, the October 1 shooting within days of the opening day really rallied the city around the Golden Knights.

The Raiders are a little bit of a different animal, the stadium is always going to be full because we're a destination city. If it's November or December and you're going to go see your team play on the road, are you going to go to Las Vegas or go to Buffalo or Cleveland or Chicago?

Allegiant Stadium will never ever be a formidable home field advantage for the Raiders. There are way too many people who bought season tickets for the sole purpose of selling them to make money. I'm guilty of that, I have sold a ridiculous number of my Raiders seats, simply because it just made sense. I'd check what seats in my section were going for a week or two before a given game; they are almost always going for 2X face value, sometimes 3X and I'm like, you're going to pay me $2500 or $3000+ to watch the game at home?? Of course I'm selling them.

Now the Oakland A's are coming to town, who knows how that's going to turn out.

The NBA? Fewer and fewer people are watching the NBA. The NBA is going to pull fans from VGK, not because there's a lot of crossover between NHL fans and NBA fans but because for many people here in the entertainment capital of the world, taking people to the games will simply be taking people to the games, whether it's NBA or NHL; it's just an event to do your business marketing and entertainment.

Does the NBA bring a different element to your city? That's not an argument worth getting into, my thoughts are primarily laid out above.

Sorry so long. I have a lot of thoughts about "market saturation". Someone that lives and breathes the MSP sports market and ticket availability, I would love to hear their thoughts on this.
 

Ogie Ogilthorpe said:
I'm a big believer in "market saturation". I could be way, way off, 100% wrong, but I've always kind of felt this way.

I think some of the teams in MSP suffer because of so many other options. I think Gopher football suffers to a small extent because of the Vikings (and I love them both). Gopher basketball probably suffers because of the T-Wolves.

I believe people have a finite amount of resources for spending on entertainment. I think that also lends itself to diluting the interest in multiple teams. The finite resources element might be less of an issue in a place like Las Vegas than other markets, but people will still probably have to make choices.

For Las Vegas, I knew the first pro franchise, whatever it was going to be, was going to be massive hit. People wanted it. Wanted it bad. And VGK was the hottest ticket in town and it still is a really good ticket. The city adopted them, the October 1 shooting within days of the opening day really rallied the city around the Golden Knights.

The Raiders are a little bit of a different animal, the stadium is always going to be full because we're a destination city. If it's November or December and you're going to go see your team play on the road, are you going to go to Las Vegas or go to Buffalo or Cleveland or Chicago?

Allegiant Stadium will never ever be a formidable home field advantage for the Raiders. There are way too many people who bought season tickets for the sole purpose of selling them to make money. I'm guilty of that, I have sold a ridiculous number of my Raiders seats, simply because it just made sense. I'd check what seats in my section were going for a week or two before a given game; they are almost always going for 2X face value, sometimes 3X and I'm like, you're going to pay me $2500 or $3000+ to watch the game at home?? Of course I'm selling them.

Now the Oakland A's are coming to town, who knows how that's going to turn out.

The NBA? Fewer and fewer people are watching the NBA. The NBA is going to pull fans from VGK, not because there's a lot of crossover between NHL fans and NBA fans but because for many people here in the entertainment capital of the world, taking people to the games will simply be taking people to the games, whether it's NBA or NHL; it's just an event to do your business marketing and entertainment.

Does the NBA bring a different element to your city? That's not an argument worth getting into, my thoughts are primarily laid out above.

Sorry so long. I have a lot of thoughts about "market saturation". Someone that lives and breathes the MSP sports market and ticket availability, I would love to hear their thoughts on this.
Click to expand...
Makes a lot of sense and I completely forgot about the A's relocating there.
 


Ogie Ogilthorpe said:
The city adopted them, the October 1 shooting within days of the opening day really rallied the city around the Golden Knights.
Click to expand...
It’s genuinely disturbing how casually you folded the 2017 Las Vegas shooting into a sports ticketing take like it’s just another data point.

More than 1,000 rounds fired, killing 60 people and wounding at least 413 others. The ensuing panic brought the total number of injured to about 867.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

People didn’t “rally around a team” because it was good for business. People were murdered. Families were shattered. A city was traumatized. And you’re over here treating it like a convenient marketing tailwind for a hockey franchise.

That’s not analysis, that’s a complete failure of basic human decency.

You wrote paragraphs about “market saturation,” but somehow the most saturated thing here is your ability to miss the point entirely. There were a hundred ways to make your argument without dragging one of the worst mass shootings in modern U.S. history into it, and you picked the one that makes you sound completely detached from reality.

If your takeaway from a tragedy like that is how it boosted ticket demand, you didn’t just miss the point, you bulldozed straight past it.

Maybe next time, keep mass casualty events out of your spreadsheets and try leading with a little awareness.
 
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Unregistered User said:
It’s genuinely disturbing how casually you folded the 2017 Las Vegas shooting into a sports ticketing take like it’s just another data point.

More than 1,000 rounds fired, killing 60 people and wounding at least 413 others. The ensuing panic brought the total number of injured to about 867.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

People didn’t “rally around a team” because it was good for business. People were murdered. Families were shattered. A city was traumatized. And you’re over here treating it like a convenient marketing tailwind for a hockey franchise.

That’s not analysis, that’s a complete failure of basic human decency.

You wrote paragraphs about “market saturation,” but somehow the most saturated thing here is your ability to miss the point entirely. There were a hundred ways to make your argument without dragging one of the worst mass shootings in modern U.S. history into it, and you picked the one that makes you sound completely detached from reality.

If your takeaway from a tragedy like that is how it boosted ticket demand, you didn’t just miss the point, you bulldozed straight past it.

Maybe next time, keep mass casualty events out of your spreadsheets and try leading with a little awareness.
Click to expand...

Solid contribution, although not unexpected in any way, shape or form considering the source. Your obsession with me is creepy, to say the least. SMH....
 

Ogie Ogilthorpe said:
Does the NBA bring a different element to your city? That's not an argument worth getting into, my thoughts are primarily laid out above.
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If it's not an argument worth getting into, why even bring up Does the NBA bring a different element to your city to begin with?

I find it had to believe whatever "element" you are referencing the NBA would bring to Vegas does not pre-exist or pass through the area to already.

Bringing an element to spend money to attend a NBA games and travel to Las Vegas, which is currently trying to overcome a massive loss in tourist income (priced out by Resort fees, huge loss in international visitors, etc) seems like it would be a big net win for the area.
 

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