2025 Minnesota High School Football Thread

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Hockey numbers aren’t down, but High School League participation in many demographics is changing based on all the points already made above.

Youth Hockey (mites through bantams) are at an all time high in Minnesota. You’re just seeing people flock to the larger and more successful associations and high school programs earlier and earlier. Maple Grove, Wayzata, Edina, and Minnetonka are all putting together 8-10 teams at every level while the majority of neighboring associations are struggling to put together teams. There has also been a shift of top level A/AA kids playing at the hockey schools like Breakaway Academy. I’d guess at least a third of the Minnetonka and Edina Varsity rosters have BA alumni on there teams.

Junior Gold Hockey participation is also at an all time high. You’re seeing some relatively high level hockey played at that level, giving kids a chance to keep playing outside of the ultra competitive and specialized HS league. There are a ton more multi-sport kids playing Junior Gold. Those mega associations are rostering up to 4 Junior gold teams in addition to the huge JV/V rosters.

Minnesota Hockey is healthy overall, but the shift in these all-star teams and ultra specialized athletes at the high school level is kind of sad.
 

What do the kids from those 8-10 teams do when they are in highschool and don't make varsity?
 


They also play for all the private schools around the metro.
 

Gold Vision said:
Hockey numbers aren’t down, but High School League participation in many demographics is changing based on all the points already made above.

Youth Hockey (mites through bantams) are at an all time high in Minnesota. You’re just seeing people flock to the larger and more successful associations and high school programs earlier and earlier. Maple Grove, Wayzata, Edina, and Minnetonka are all putting together 8-10 teams at every level while the majority of neighboring associations are struggling to put together teams. There has also been a shift of top level A/AA kids playing at the hockey schools like Breakaway Academy. I’d guess at least a third of the Minnetonka and Edina Varsity rosters have BA alumni on there teams.

Junior Gold Hockey participation is also at an all time high. You’re seeing some relatively high level hockey played at that level, giving kids a chance to keep playing outside of the ultra competitive and specialized HS league. There are a ton more multi-sport kids playing Junior Gold. Those mega associations are rostering up to 4 Junior gold teams in addition to the huge JV/V rosters.

Minnesota Hockey is healthy overall, but the shift in these all-star teams and ultra specialized athletes at the high school level is kind of sad.
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People want to be where there are people and competition.

Like hockey, basketball numbers are huge with over 1,800 youth teams playing in the MYAS state 3-8th grade tournaments. Add that in-house programs in some areas are strong. Opportunities abound, but there is a huge gap in cost points. Traveling basketball is $800+ not including travel and hotels and inhouse is about $200-$300. Still fairly high for an 8-week program. Middle schools are offering basketball for $140 for a 10 week program. Our district offers middle school basketball after school and busing, but there is a stigma about who plays in the league and people go to in-house or traveling. All of these programs feature games over practice time.

MYAS has done a nice job of offering a new league like Junior Gold Hockey. When large schools are cutting 50+ 9th graders from their programs, MYAS has offered a league to keep playing competitively through high school. It's grown and has over 45 metro schools represented in the league with some schools having multiple teams.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
People want to be where there are people and competition.

Like hockey, basketball numbers are huge with over 1,800 youth teams playing in the MYAS state 3-8th grade tournaments. Add that in-house programs in some areas are strong. Opportunities abound, but there is a huge gap in cost points. Traveling basketball is $800+ not including travel and hotels and inhouse is about $200-$300. Still fairly high for an 8-week program. Middle schools are offering basketball for $140 for a 10 week program. Our district offers middle school basketball after school and busing, but there is a stigma about who plays in the league and people go to in-house or traveling. All of these programs feature games over practice time.

MYAS has done a nice job of offering a new league like Junior Gold Hockey. When large schools are cutting 50+ 9th graders from their programs, MYAS has offered a league to keep playing competitively through high school. It's grown and has over 45 metro schools represented in the league with some schools having multiple teams.
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Yep. In 8th grade boys hoops this year, Wayzata had six travel teams and six SW league (non-travel, but you play other schools) teams. I think Minnetonka had even more. That's ~120 8th graders playing basketball. Maybe 8 will make the high school team, and even then some of those spots might go to kids playing for other schools/kids playing up, etc. That doesn't count kids who are only playing afterschool middle school ball (which kind of sucks actually).

It is nice that there's an option for those kids who won't make their high school teams. I think my son is done with basketball though. It's too bad - he's a decent player, but he just didn't enjoy it this year.

Serious question. Is there a rule that prevents a school from fielding more than one varsity team if the school is enormous? Is there any state where this is allowed?
 



disco said:
Yep. In 8th grade boys hoops this year, Wayzata had six travel teams and six SW league (non-travel, but you play other schools) teams. I think Minnetonka had even more. That's ~120 8th graders playing basketball. Maybe 8 will make the high school team, and even then some of those spots might go to kids playing for other schools/kids playing up, etc. That doesn't count kids who are only playing afterschool middle school ball (which kind of sucks actually).

It is nice that there's an option for those kids who won't make their high school teams. I think my son is done with basketball though. It's too bad - he's a decent player, but he just didn't enjoy it this year.

Serious question. Is there a rule that prevents a school from fielding more than one varsity team if the school is enormous? Is there any state where this is allowed?
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You definitely can start a club team and play other club teams.
This is how sports like boys volleyball got started

But there won’t be much athletic support for this within the building. Especially if there are facilities limitations.

But all kinds of kids who don’t make varsity continue to play AAU.
Had a kid once who didn’t play football because his AAU coach told him he was D1 hoops. He got cut from a bad varsity basketball team.
Hate when that happens.
 



Some guy said:
You definitely can start a club team and play other club teams.
This is how sports like boys volleyball got started

But there won’t be much athletic support for this within the building. Especially if there are facilities limitations.

But all kinds of kids who don’t make varsity continue to play AAU.
Had a kid once who didn’t play football because his AAU coach told him he was D1 hoops. He got cut from a bad varsity basketball team.
Hate when that happens.
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I've watched 6'10" kids get cut because they don't fit how teams play today and they still play AAU and go onto college ball.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
People want to be where there are people and competition.

Like hockey, basketball numbers are huge with over 1,800 youth teams playing in the MYAS state 3-8th grade tournaments. Add that in-house programs in some areas are strong. Opportunities abound, but there is a huge gap in cost points. Traveling basketball is $800+ not including travel and hotels and inhouse is about $200-$300. Still fairly high for an 8-week program. Middle schools are offering basketball for $140 for a 10 week program. Our district offers middle school basketball after school and busing, but there is a stigma about who plays in the league and people go to in-house or traveling. All of these programs feature games over practice time.

MYAS has done a nice job of offering a new league like Junior Gold Hockey. When large schools are cutting 50+ 9th graders from their programs, MYAS has offered a league to keep playing competitively through high school. It's grown and has over 45 metro schools represented in the league with some schools having multiple teams.
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I don’t get the stigma behind the lack of interest in the middle school teams. Back in the 90s, everyone played on the middle school teams and rode the activity busses. It was such a fun way to hang out and compete with your school buddies. The club/ association scene existed, but not nearly as intense, and was usually complimentary to the school season instead of year round.

I now have in and pay a stupid amount of money for my daughter’s club sport of choice. We travel all over the country at 12 years old when there is plenty of nearby competition. I have no good excuse other than she loves it, and the coaches do an amazing job of focusing on developing overall self-confidence. There is really no end game other than keeping her busy and active, and maybe being able to compete for a varsity spot someday.

Thankfully my son is all in on HS Football. It’s by far one of the most affordable and accessible sports in the state. It’s a fantastic team sport, entertaining, no cuts, and a camaraderie unlike any other.

Junior Gold was kind of the perfect mix of competitiveness without the massive amount of commitment for him to keep playing hockey.

It’s great MYAS has offered that opportunity to still give a competitive option for these kids to continue to play basketball. Keeps kids healthy, engaged, and playing a sport they can play well into adulthood.

It is interesting times for sure, I’m all about having as many options and opportunities as possible for the kids. Where it starts to really get to me is when things become inaccessible for the less fortunate, and even the average working family.
 

Gold Vision said:
I don’t get the stigma behind the lack of interest in the middle school teams. Back in the 90s, everyone played on the middle school teams and rode the activity busses. It was such a fun way to hang out and compete with your school buddies. The club/ association scene existed, but not nearly as intense, and was usually complimentary to the school season instead of year round.

I now have in and pay a stupid amount of money for my daughter’s club sport of choice. We travel all over the country at 12 years old when there is plenty of nearby competition. I have no good excuse other than she loves it, and the coaches do an amazing job of focusing on developing overall self-confidence. There is really no end game other than keeping her busy and active, and maybe being able to compete for a varsity spot someday.

Thankfully my son is all in on HS Football. It’s by far one of the most affordable and accessible sports in the state. It’s a fantastic team sport, entertaining, no cuts, and a camaraderie unlike any other.

Junior Gold was kind of the perfect mix of competitiveness without the massive amount of commitment for him to keep playing hockey.

It’s great MYAS has offered that opportunity to still give a competitive option for these kids to continue to play basketball. Keeps kids healthy, engaged, and playing a sport they can play well into adulthood.

It is interesting times for sure, I’m all about having as many options and opportunities as possible for the kids. Where it starts to really get to me is when things become inaccessible for the less fortunate, and even the average working family.
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Amen GV. You and I are of the same mindset.

My son played in the SW League (the non-travel, but against other schools) league from grades 5-8, this being his last year. He didn't make travel - I have my opinions on that, but whatever - he didn't care so that's fine. It was fun. There were some good players, some really bad players - sorry, but it's true - but it was overall fun and while it was a league coached mainly by dads, some moms, and some older siblings, the coaches mostly cared and did pretty well.

So the whole middle school ball thing. My son played in 7th grade and hated it. Didn't play this year in 8th but still played SWL. Our opinion, and his, was that the coaches in school sponsored middle school ball didn't give a shit except for the A team which was 100% travel ball kids. The two B squads were largely ignored, had practices/games cancelled, poor coaching, had a bunch of screw off problem kids, etc. My son was sick of dealing with it and said he'd rather join ski club on Fridays and we understood.

I agree 100% with you on football. Football is my son's #1 sport as well, and I encourage it for exactly the same reasons you posted. I coached for a few years too and I love the game.
 

Very interesting discussion.

I've heard in youth activities there is no middle ground. You either go all in, with big costs and travel, or you do in-house rec league where kids don't care, screw off, don't show up, etc.
 



GopherGrit said:
Very interesting discussion.

I've heard in youth activities there is no middle ground. You either go all in, with big costs and travel, or you do in-house rec league where kids don't care, screw off, don't show up, etc.
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Which is why football is still unique. It's a no-cut sport and not a club sport.
 

I'm going to post this here, because we have good discussions a lot about enrollment and classes for football, and we have knowledgeable folks on the topic.

Does the MSHSL really fudge numbers for other sports? Tartan is a 4A school (largest) for basketball. They play A for hockey. Minneapolis South is 3A for basketball. All of Minneapolis is A for Hockey. I could find other examples, but you get what I'm talking about.

Even with adjusted enrollments using their 3/5 (unfortunate) formula, that seems like a lot of fudging numbers.
 

MSHSL rules currently say you can appeal class placement and seek to opt down one level if (a) your free/reduced lunch percentage is 50% or greater, or (b) your enrollment is within 10% of the top level for the class you are seeking to opt down to. Minneapolis hockey presumably would qualify under the first criterion as it clearly wouldn't for enrollment.

An inability to compete isn't an expressly stated criterion, but the application does ask for your school's won-loss record in the sport over the previous five years so it must on some level get considered.
 

disco said:
I'm going to post this here, because we have good discussions a lot about enrollment and classes for football, and we have knowledgeable folks on the topic.

Does the MSHSL really fudge numbers for other sports? Tartan is a 4A school (largest) for basketball. They play A for hockey. Minneapolis South is 3A for basketball. All of Minneapolis is A for Hockey. I could find other examples, but you get what I'm talking about.

Even with adjusted enrollments using their 3/5 (unfortunate) formula, that seems like a lot of fudging numbers.
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I think that outside of football appeals down are much more common and much more likely to be accepted.

Minneapolis South is 4a football.
Minneapolis south is 3a hoops. Probably 2a hockey with an opt down that was accepted.

Tartan is 5a football
4a hoops.
Tartan probably 2a hockey but opts down and was accepted


MSHSL enrollment
Tartan 53
South 78

For football, top 32 6a
Next 43 5a
So South is third in 4a football
Tartan is middle third of 5a football

Basketball
62 in 4a
So South is top 20 in 3a hoops and tartan is bottom 10 in 4a hoops

Hockey tartan is just above the 2a cut but opts down and was accepted
South is below the cut but the co-op is way above the cut but opts down and was accepted
 
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Some guy said:
I think that outside of football appeals down are much more common and much more likely to be accepted.

Minneapolis South is 4a football.
Minneapolis south is 3a hoops. Probably 2a hockey with an opt down that was accepted.

Tartan is 5a football
4a hoops.
Tartan probably 2a hockey but opts down and was accepted


MSHSL enrollment
Tartan 53
South 78

For football, top 32 6a
Next 43 5a
So South is third in 4a football
Tartan is middle third of 5a football

Basketball
62 in 4a
So South is top 20 in 3a hoops and tartan is bottom 10 in 4a hoops

Hockey tartan is just above the 2a cut but opts down and was accepted
South is below the cut but the co-op is way above the cut but opts down and was accepted
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It appears they are pretty generous on letting teams opt down in hockey. Especially when the combined enrollment of co-op schools would never pass muster for opting down. Minneapolis isn't just South, it's one team for all the schools, and from what my friends tell me, the district could absolutely field more than one boys varsity team.
 

disco said:
It appears they are pretty generous on letting teams opt down in hockey. Especially when the combined enrollment of co-op schools would never pass muster for opting down. Minneapolis isn't just South, it's one team for all the schools, and from what my friends tell me, the district could absolutely field more than one boys varsity team.
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I do not care for the MSHSL’s decisions many times.

In football an opt down team went to the state semis then they basically stopped allowing it in football.
So if Minneapolis wins the single A title, they’ll probably stop letting teams opt down
 

I think it should bear in mind-- as xyz1 said above, it is not an "option" to move down, but an appeal that has to be granted by the MSHSL. The MSHSL reviews the appeals via a committee of school representatives from throughout the state for every sport and every class before being submitted to the full Board of Directors. That is A LOT of work.

It also can lead to some weird results in some cycles, where some schools in some sports seem to be practically able to make it like an option, while other sports it seems to never happen. But it is clear that the more successful you are competitively at the level you are at, the less likely you are to be successful in an appeal down (which is as it should be!).
 

SkiUMahLaw said:
I think it should bear in mind-- as xyz1 said above, it is not an "option" to move down, but an appeal that has to be granted by the MSHSL. The MSHSL reviews the appeals via a committee of school representatives from throughout the state for every sport and every class before being submitted to the full Board of Directors. That is A LOT of work.

It also can lead to some weird results in some cycles, where some schools in some sports seem to be practically able to make it like an option, while other sports it seems to never happen. But it is clear that the more successful you are competitively at the level you are at, the less likely you are to be successful in an appeal down (which is as it should be!).
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The whole system is very political. I won’t say corrupt but it’s slimy
 

Gold Vision said:
Hockey numbers aren’t down, but High School League participation in many demographics is changing based on all the points already made above.

Youth Hockey (mites through bantams) are at an all time high in Minnesota. You’re just seeing people flock to the larger and more successful associations and high school programs earlier and earlier. Maple Grove, Wayzata, Edina, and Minnetonka are all putting together 8-10 teams at every level while the majority of neighboring associations are struggling to put together teams. There has also been a shift of top level A/AA kids playing at the hockey schools like Breakaway Academy. I’d guess at least a third of the Minnetonka and Edina Varsity rosters have BA alumni on there teams.

Junior Gold Hockey participation is also at an all time high. You’re seeing some relatively high level hockey played at that level, giving kids a chance to keep playing outside of the ultra competitive and specialized HS league. There are a ton more multi-sport kids playing Junior Gold. Those mega associations are rostering up to 4 Junior gold teams in addition to the huge JV/V rosters.

Minnesota Hockey is healthy overall, but the shift in these all-star teams and ultra specialized athletes at the high school level is kind of sad.
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RIP: Harding Area Hockey Association
 




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