Take a deep breath, it’ll be okay.

Donate To GopherHole
Johnnyboy18 said:
Can't wait for all of your predictions on how bad the team will be then subsequently be better than thought again. Want to bet they'll be better than last year this upcoming year. Or are you all talk?
Click to expand...
You are predicting they will win greater than 9 conference games and make NCAA? If they are able to accomplish that, then I will be very impressed and Ben will have established a track record of overcoming adversity. No, I don't want to bet that the Gophers will fail even if it is what I feel is the likely outcome. You seem to think Ben Johnson is the best possible coach the Gophers could have at this time. I do not. We disagree. That is all John boy.
 

Tucker32 said:
Garcia can shoot, he can handle the ball, he can pass, and he defends pretty well. None of which Payne does well, other than block shots. Payne is not a player who can be a featured scorer, and he wants to be. He is the type of player who has a lot of development to do, and to do so needs to be receptive to coaching. He can be an extremely valuable player on a team, but needs to be surrounded by people who have offensive skill he can play off and needs to accept his role. Not everyone likes to here what they need to work on.
Click to expand...
Payne plays defense and is full motor on both ends. He is a physical presence and space eater who helps teammates. Garcia is a one on one guy and a good one. We need both. You are fooling yourself if you think differently
 

Big Dawg said:
#1. I'll wait until fall when the roster is set. In the meantime, I'm hoping for one of two things to happen: Ben gets studs from the portal, they gel nicely, and we go 13-7 in the BIG or Ben can't assemble a decent roster, we go 3-17 in the BIG and Ben is gone (then we hire an actual HC with HC experience). Tune in come October to see what the 2024/2025 Gophers can do.
Click to expand...
I’m sure the studs are lined up to sign with Ben! I’m just waiting to see which studs he selects!
 

Alright maybe I was riding the wave of being pissed off about Payne hitting the portal too hard, Garcia is likely the better player.

I will say though, Garcia needs to be able to play better team basketball. His best games were when we just handed him the ball to go score 1 on 1. We didn't win a lot of those games.

There were definitely games this year when Payne had more of an impact on winning the game as opposed to just putting up good numbers.
Tucker32 said:
Garcia can shoot, he can handle the ball, he can pass, and he defends pretty well. None of which Payne does well, other than block shots. Payne is not a player who can be a featured scorer, and he wants to be. He is the type of player who has a lot of development to do, and to do so needs to be receptive to coaching. He can be an extremely valuable player on a team, but needs to be surrounded by people who have offensive skill he can play off and needs to accept his role. Not everyone likes to here what they need to work on.
Click to expand...
bga1 said:
Payne plays defense and is full motor on both ends. He is a physical presence and space eater who helps teammates. Garcia is a one on one guy and a good one. We need both. You are fooling yourself if you think differently
Click to expand...
Both players would be the ideal choice absolutely.
 
Last edited:




atsgopher said:
Appreciate ya trying.

I was able to poke around a little. Mostly lost. Saw something that me think Fox was back for year 7. I figured I shouldn’t draw conclusions given how foreign Social media is to me.
Click to expand...
I can corroborate that it was there. It wasn't a post, it was just a "story". It was just a still image of Dawson and Hawkins in the same frame during the PSU game.
 

WriterGoph said:
I think he will continue to build relationships individually and kids making decisions because of other kids' experiences doesn't carry as much weight anymore - obviously we are seeing more of the "me first" generation. Maybe Ben focuses more energy on the portal instead of HS recruiting going forward?
Click to expand...
If you can get the level of talent that we got in Hawkins from Howard (no offense to their school or program) or like seeing P5 talent upgrades from the Dakota schools ...

why wouldn't you focus the bulk of your recruiting efforts each year on getting "call up" guys from low and mid majors?? Or even DII if the talent is there (Fox).

That makes more sense to me than signing a high school guy, developing him, only for him to leave.
 




Gophers7633 said:
Sign me up for not making it. I don't think we'll be all that close, unfortunately. I'm guessing you think we will make it then?
Click to expand...
How can you already say that before you know who the replacements are from the portal?

Was Hawkins a good addition?
 

So far Kadyn Betts hasn't entered. I know he actually committed a year earlier than anticipated and then red shirted. I did think he would get more time this year then he did, but maybe it was due to the 3 leaving now complaining about their playing time and Ben trying to accommodate, which explains there exits as they all left in a hurry? Betts does seem to be developing in size nicely and maybe now he gets his chance to shine next year as the starting Wing??? Definitely think he has a chance to be a good Wing player with his size and ability.
 


Dakota2 said:
2-18 - 9-11. Much bigger jump than you ever had.
Click to expand...
So, the strongest argument in defense I'd his three years here is that his first two years were so catastrophically bad, that a bad year where we didn't even sniff the tournament and got bumped in round 2 of NIT feels like a big accomplishment?
 



WriterGoph said:
Keinys just entered the portal, so 5 scholarships open at the moment
Click to expand...
He seemed like a fun guy to root for.
march madness said:
You will see next year how you under rated his defense, physical presence, we now have none, and shot blocking helped our guards.

He is irreplaceable and almost every team in the country would love to get him!
Click to expand...
we all know he was very good. But calling him irreplaceable is pretty much calling him the best center in the country. He’s 100% replaceable, especially on the offensive end.
 

jovs said:
8-4 in the NCAA Tournament, two in the elite eight, maybe not as bad as you think.
Click to expand...

Yes, much better from that perspective than the highest rated conference (Big 12) which had 8 teams make the tournament and not a single one make the final eight.

Having said that, my belief is that conferences should be evaluated from top to bottom rather than how well their best teams do in postseason.
 

GoldenMAV30266 said:
we all know he was very good. But calling him irreplaceable is pretty much calling him the best center in the country. He’s 100% replaceable, especially on the offensive end.
Click to expand...

Well, "irreplaceable" probably should be considered a relative term. I agree that one couldn't consider Payne the best center in the country but we could not land the best center in the country so that comparison is kind of irrelevant for us.

I don't expect us to land a center better, or even that close to, Payne but we might be able to get a couple of guys who will do well enough that he won't be missed as much as we think.
 

MplsGopher said:
How can you already say that before you know who the replacements are from the portal?

Was Hawkins a good addition?
Click to expand...

3 years of evidence of portal recruiting, coaching and scheduling of not even being close.

Yeah, he was a good addition. In terms of actually making the tournament, it wasn't close enough to being good enough though.
 

jovs said:
8-4 in the NCAA Tournament, two in the elite eight, maybe not as bad as you think.
Click to expand...
I'm not the one who was saying the B1G sucked this year.... However we only beat up the bottom teams... So yes we still sucked
 

skiumah1 said:
Alright maybe I was riding the wave of being pissed off about Payne hitting the portal too hard, Garcia is likely the better player.

I will say though, Garcia needs to be able to play better team basketball. His best games were when we just handed him the ball to go score 1 on 1. We didn't win a lot of those games.

There were definitely games this year when Payne had more of an impact on winning the game as opposed to just putting up good numbers.


Both players would be the ideal choice absolutely.
Click to expand...
Garcia had his better games when the rest of the team couldn’t hardly do anything. I certainly am not going to blame him for those losses because he was the only player that knew how to put the ball in the bucket while the others wanted to keep jacking up threes when they weren’t falling.
 

007gopherfan said:
So far Kadyn Betts hasn't entered. I know he actually committed a year earlier than anticipated and then red shirted. I did think he would get more time this year then he did, but maybe it was due to the 3 leaving now complaining about their playing time and Ben trying to accommodate, which explains there exits as they all left in a hurry? Betts does seem to be developing in size nicely and maybe now he gets his chance to shine next year as the starting Wing??? Definitely think he has a chance to be a good Wing player with his size and ability.
Click to expand...

Betts is a stretch 4 like Garcia. If he sticks around he'll likely be Garcia's backup. He's a bigger, less athletic version of JOJ who couldn't play the wing.
 

skiumah1 said:
Alright maybe I was riding the wave of being pissed off about Payne hitting the portal too hard, Garcia is likely the better player.

I will say though, Garcia needs to be able to play better team basketball.
Click to expand...
YES
skiumah1 said:
His best games were when we just handed him the ball to go score 1 on 1. We didn't win a lot of those games.
Click to expand...
Spot on
skiumah1 said:
There were definitely games this year when Payne had more of an impact on winning the game as opposed to just putting up good numbers.
Click to expand...
When we won Big Ten games Payne average over 12 per game. When we lost Big Ten games Payne averaged around 7 per game- ie. he was getting fed the ball. Payne is more valuable than people think.
skiumah1 said:
Both players would be the ideal choice absolutely.
Click to expand...
Yep. Let's hope Garcia stays....I don't think anything is safe yet.
 



to sum up what I think/feel:

there are problems with the Men's BB program. Note the plural - problems.

if we accept that the Coach is one of the problems, my contention is that changing the coach may - and I say may - only solve 1 problem.

other problems or potential problems:
lack of NIL compared to other P5-level programs
perception of MN - bad weather, etc
perception of the program - no real success for 25 years - old arena
support of administration is lacking
other athletic programs take a backseat to football in terms of resources and support
fan support is minimal - tickets cost too much and too easy to stay home and watch on TV
Twin Cities market dominated by pro teams

add in the changes in college sports with NIL and the portal, and this is a tough job. I don't say impossible - but it is a tough job. there are no quick, easy solutions.
 

skiumah1 said:
To me, we're really a program that needs to find our guy. We're not going to get the best coach out there, we just need a coach that fits this job. Who is that guy is the question?

Medved has gotta be top of the list. Maybe look again at a guy like Craig Smith or Henderson from SDSU.

We're not going to pay huge money, but that doesn't mean we can't get a coach in here that can get us in the Dance 2/3 years or 3 out of every 4. That can be done here. We can make a Sweet 16 every 4th/5th year.

Once this program gets turned around a little bit, the following grows, the NIL grows, and there's potential here.

Shit, we won a couple of games this year and people were trying to get excited. It wasn't a good year but I feel like this city is ready to support a team that can get some momentum going.
Click to expand...
Gophers have not been a 3/4 year NCAA team in decades.
 



skiumah1 said:
Alright maybe I was riding the wave of being pissed off about Payne hitting the portal too hard, Garcia is likely the better player.

I will say though, Garcia needs to be able to play better team basketball. His best games were when we just handed him the ball to go score 1 on 1. We didn't win a lot of those games.

There were definitely games this year when Payne had more of an impact on winning the game as opposed to just putting up good numbers.


Both players would be the ideal choice absolutely.
Click to expand...
I think you are correct to a large degree.

Let's also recall joj kept Mn in and won a game or two with his play as well.
 


CentralGopher said:
Garcia had his better games when the rest of the team couldn’t hardly do anything. I certainly am not going to blame him for those losses because he was the only player that knew how to put the ball in the bucket while the others wanted to keep jacking up threes when they weren’t falling.
Click to expand...
I agree you can't fault Garcia.

But Garcia 1 on 1 won't win most games as we've seen.

We either need a better offensive system OR better players around Garcia.

I'd say a little of each is needed.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom