***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT RUTGERS IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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gopheraddict said:
Below is a quote from a reader comment on the Star Tribune's story on last night's game that contains an interesting statistic:

"Minnesota has only attempted 121 shots in the paint, that is less than half of almost all big ten schools whose attempts in the paint are, 264, 276, 226, 284, 227, 283, 281, 202, 234, 194, 291, 221, and 235. It’s ludicrous that we care so little about shot selection when we shoot so poorly. That is 100% on the coaching staff."
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We are playing as if we still have Charlie Daniels in the post.
 

Gophers_4life said:
How many P6 current head coaches were never a head coach anywhere before being hired?
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I don’t have the patience to look it up. However, I think its 8 of 14 in the big ten. And 9 of 14 were never college head coaches when they were hired.

You never know though as some might have had a one year interim stint or some level thats unreported.

I think this was brought up when Ben was hired and it turns out to be historically true as well (maybe that was just MN).
 


Hey, I am very disappointed. I thought this team was going to be a lot better. I was obviously wrong.

and now the question really does become - what happens next?

No matter how deeply Coyle is buried in the secret bunker, he has to be aware of what's happening, and what that means for ticket sales, advertising, donations, etc.

So, I have come to this line of thinking: the Gophers will need to show significant improvement next year or Johnson is gone. I'm not talking about a little better - I'm talking about a LOT better. The players have to show individual improvement and the team has to show team improvement.

Another season even close to this one, and I think Coyle will have no choice - he will have to pull the plug.

in fact, I'll take it a step farther - if next season is as bad as this year, Johnson will not make it through the season.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Hey, I am very disappointed. I thought this team was going to be a lot better. I was obviously wrong.

and now the question really does become - what happens next?

No matter how deeply Coyle is buried in the secret bunker, he has to be aware of what's happening, and what that means for ticket sales, advertising, donations, etc.

So, I have come to this line of thinking: the Gophers will need to show significant improvement next year or Johnson is gone. I'm not talking about a little better - I'm talking about a LOT better. The players have to show individual improvement and the team has to show team improvement.

Another season even close to this one, and I think Coyle will have no choice - he will have to pull the plug.

in fact, I'll take it a step farther - if next season is as bad as this year, Johnson will not make it through the season.
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I just don't think that there is a level of failure- without a scandal attached- that gets Ben fired after 3 years. Not to mention that - if the team stands pat (bad move) I just don't even see how they could remain as bad as this year. It is probably a 5 win team next year just based on experience. Not enough for me but enough for the U of M.
 


atsgopher said:
I don’t have the patience to look it up. However, I think its 8 of 14 in the big ten. And 9 of 14 were never college head coaches when they were hired.

You never know though as some might have had a one year interim stint or some level thats unreported.

I think this was brought up when Ben was hired and it turns out to be historically true as well (maybe that was just MN).
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I do have the patience!
Purdue-Matt Painter. Previously a head coach (Southern Illinois)
Illinois-Brad Underwood. Previously a head coach. (Four schools)
Rutgers-Steve Pikiell. Previously a head coach (Stony Brook)
Northwestern-Chris Collins. Never a head coach.
Iowa-Freak the Freak. Previously a head coach. (3 stops)
Maryland-Kevin Willard’s. Previously a head coach. (2 stops)
Indiana-Mike Woodson. Never a head college coach. (Many years anNBA head coach)
MSU-Tom Izzo. Never a college head coach. Old as sin.
Michigan-Juwan Howard. Never a head coach. Longtime NBA assistant.
PSU-Micah Shrewsberry. Previously a head coach. (IU South Bend)
Wisco-Greg Gard. Never a head coach.
OSU-Chris Holtmann. Previously a head coach. (Butler)
Nebraska-Fred Hoiberg. Previously a head coach (Iowa St)
Minnesota-Ben Johnson. Never a head coach.

So by my count 5 coaches have not have previous college head coaching experience though one has extensive NBA HC experience.
 

Outsider said:
This my biggest pet peave. We miss so many opportunities to throw the ball into the lane. Having played both the 5 and other positions because of my height, nothing pisses me off more when I work my ass off and don’t receive the ball when I’m only 6-8 feet from the hoop. On the other end, I loved throwing it in there because as soon as my guy doubled or even turned his back to me, I moved to an open spot and buried open shots. And if my big boy turned and made the shot it was another assist for me.
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I've always wondered why it's so easy for other teams to get the ball down low but we have such a hard time with it.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I do have the patience!
Purdue-Matt Painter. Previously a head coach (Southern Illinois)
Illinois-Brad Underwood. Previously a head coach. (Four schools)
Rutgers-Steve Pikiell. Previously a head coach (Stony Brook)
Northwestern-Chris Collins. Never a head coach.
Iowa-Freak the Freak. Previously a head coach. (3 stops)
Maryland-Kevin Willard’s. Previously a head coach. (2 stops)
Indiana-Mike Woodson. Never a head college coach. (Many years anNBA head coach)
MSU-Tom Izzo. Never a college head coach. Old as sin.
Michigan-Juwan Howard. Never a head coach. Longtime NBA assistant.
PSU-Micah Shrewsberry. Previously a head coach. (IU South Bend)
Wisco-Greg Gard. Never a head coach.
OSU-Chris Holtmann. Previously a head coach. (Butler)
Nebraska-Fred Hoiberg. Previously a head coach (Iowa St)
Minnesota-Ben Johnson. Never a head coach.

So by my count 5 coaches have not have previous college head coaching experience though one has extensive NBA HC experience.
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This is a really solid post. Thanks! So the guys that were never a head coach:

Chris Collins - handed a tough program and has had tough results- has it going in year 10 and had one NCAA- learned under Coach K

Juwann Howard- handed a great program and has been okay

Izzo- was handed a program that had Magic and won a natty and he was already the assistant- assuring a good handoff

Woodson- handed a great program that was currently in a trough but Indiana is close to blue blood- again he's been okay

It's one thing to have never coached and get handed a program that is already historically successful and has the name and history you can recruit to. It is totally another to get one that is struggling to get out of the bottom and has done so for 20+ years.

Of all of these Izzo is really the only homerun. Chris Collins is the expected result. He sits at 60-116. (.341) He succeeded Carmody who was 70-150 (.316) (after going an incredible 50-6 at Princeton).
 

GophersInIowa said:
I've always wondered why it's so easy for other teams to get the ball down low but we have such a hard time with it.
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One thing about Payne that has surprised me is that he seems to have bad hands. He fumbles a lot of passes, and he gets the ball stripped a lot. He also has the habit of bringing the ball down when he does have position under the basket.

that has certainly held down some of the potential inside scoring.
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
I do have the patience!
Purdue-Matt Painter. Previously a head coach (Southern Illinois)
Illinois-Brad Underwood. Previously a head coach. (Four schools)
Rutgers-Steve Pikiell. Previously a head coach (Stony Brook)
Northwestern-Chris Collins. Never a head coach.
Iowa-Freak the Freak. Previously a head coach. (3 stops)
Maryland-Kevin Willard’s. Previously a head coach. (2 stops)
Indiana-Mike Woodson. Never a head college coach. (Many years anNBA head coach)
MSU-Tom Izzo. Never a college head coach. Old as sin.
Michigan-Juwan Howard. Never a head coach. Longtime NBA assistant.
PSU-Micah Shrewsberry. Previously a head coach. (IU South Bend)
Wisco-Greg Gard. Never a head coach.
OSU-Chris Holtmann. Previously a head coach. (Butler)
Nebraska-Fred Hoiberg. Previously a head coach (Iowa St)
Minnesota-Ben Johnson. Never a head coach.

So by my count 5 coaches have not have previous college head coaching experience though one has extensive NBA HC experience.
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Thanks. I had Painter, Shrews, and Hoiberg as never a head coach when they started in B10. I guess Hoiberg is an equivalent for the spirit of the original question, as he first job was P6.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
One thing about Payne that has surprised me is that he seems to have bad hands. He fumbles a lot of passes, and he gets the ball stripped a lot. He also has the habit of bringing the ball down when he does have position under the basket.

that has certainly held down some of the potential inside scoring.
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He doesn't fumble the catch. I think he has good hands but lousy technique.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I do have the patience!
Purdue-Matt Painter. Previously a head coach (Southern Illinois)
Illinois-Brad Underwood. Previously a head coach. (Four schools)
Rutgers-Steve Pikiell. Previously a head coach (Stony Brook)
Northwestern-Chris Collins. Never a head coach.
Iowa-Freak the Freak. Previously a head coach. (3 stops)
Maryland-Kevin Willard’s. Previously a head coach. (2 stops)
Indiana-Mike Woodson. Never a head college coach. (Many years anNBA head coach)
MSU-Tom Izzo. Never a college head coach. Old as sin.
Michigan-Juwan Howard. Never a head coach. Longtime NBA assistant.
PSU-Micah Shrewsberry. Previously a head coach. (IU South Bend)
Wisco-Greg Gard. Never a head coach.
OSU-Chris Holtmann. Previously a head coach. (Butler)
Nebraska-Fred Hoiberg. Previously a head coach (Iowa St)
Minnesota-Ben Johnson. Never a head coach.

So by my count 5 coaches have not have previous college head coaching experience though one has extensive NBA HC experience.
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The other dramatic difference is many of these guys sat on the bench of some of the sport's/conference's most iconic coaches.

Judd Heathcoate
Mike Krzyzewski
Bo Ryan
Gene Keady
Matt Painter
Our guy -- Travis Steele and Richard Pitino

The resume of Ben Johnson is just not comparable to anybody else in this conference. Doesn't need to be a precursor of success, but doesn't hurt. Just a complete lottery ticket.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I do have the patience!
Purdue-Matt Painter. Previously a head coach (Southern Illinois)
Illinois-Brad Underwood. Previously a head coach. (Four schools)
Rutgers-Steve Pikiell. Previously a head coach (Stony Brook)
Northwestern-Chris Collins. Never a head coach.
Iowa-Freak the Freak. Previously a head coach. (3 stops)
Maryland-Kevin Willard’s. Previously a head coach. (2 stops)
Indiana-Mike Woodson. Never a head college coach. (Many years anNBA head coach)
MSU-Tom Izzo. Never a college head coach. Old as sin.
Michigan-Juwan Howard. Never a head coach. Longtime NBA assistant.
PSU-Micah Shrewsberry. Previously a head coach. (IU South Bend)
Wisco-Greg Gard. Never a head coach.
OSU-Chris Holtmann. Previously a head coach. (Butler)
Nebraska-Fred Hoiberg. Previously a head coach (Iowa St)
Minnesota-Ben Johnson. Never a head coach.

So by my count 5 coaches have not have previous college head coaching experience though one has extensive NBA HC experience.
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Izzo was Heathcote's long-time assistant and took over an established top tier program. Same with Gard. If Ben had been here for Pitino's entire tenure and Richard left for Louisville after taking us to 3 Sweet 16's and a Final Four, it would be a different matter.
 



howeda7 said:
Izzo was Heathcote's long-time assistant and took over an established top tier program. Same with Gard. If Ben had been here for Pitino's entire tenure and Richard left for Louisville after taking us to 3 Sweet 16's and a Final Four, it would be a different matter.
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Sure. I didn’t say it was apples to apples. I answered a question by using facts. That’s all I can do!
 

Bad Gopher said:
According to the Star Tribune, it was the biggest margin of victory for Rutgers yet in the Big Ten.

I'm not sure if the conference has seen a team as bad as the Gophers since Ben Johnson played at Northwestern.
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short ornery norwegian said:
Hey, I am very disappointed. I thought this team was going to be a lot better. I was obviously wrong.

and now the question really does become - what happens next?

No matter how deeply Coyle is buried in the secret bunker, he has to be aware of what's happening, and what that means for ticket sales, advertising, donations, etc.

So, I have come to this line of thinking: the Gophers will need to show significant improvement next year or Johnson is gone. I'm not talking about a little better - I'm talking about a LOT better. The players have to show individual improvement and the team has to show team improvement.

Another season even close to this one, and I think Coyle will have no choice - he will have to pull the plug.

in fact, I'll take it a step farther - if next season is as bad as this year, Johnson will not make it through the season.
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Agreed.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Hey, I am very disappointed. I thought this team was going to be a lot better. I was obviously wrong.

and now the question really does become - what happens next?

No matter how deeply Coyle is buried in the secret bunker, he has to be aware of what's happening, and what that means for ticket sales, advertising, donations, etc.

So, I have come to this line of thinking: the Gophers will need to show significant improvement next year or Johnson is gone. I'm not talking about a little better - I'm talking about a LOT better. The players have to show individual improvement and the team has to show team improvement.

Another season even close to this one, and I think Coyle will have no choice - he will have to pull the plug.

in fact, I'll take it a step farther - if next season is as bad as this year, Johnson will not make it through the season.
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hypothetical...what do you think happens if we lose two of the freshmen to the portal?
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I do have the patience!
Purdue-Matt Painter. Previously a head coach (Southern Illinois)
Illinois-Brad Underwood. Previously a head coach. (Four schools)
Rutgers-Steve Pikiell. Previously a head coach (Stony Brook)
Northwestern-Chris Collins. Never a head coach.
Iowa-Freak the Freak. Previously a head coach. (3 stops)
Maryland-Kevin Willard’s. Previously a head coach. (2 stops)
Indiana-Mike Woodson. Never a head college coach. (Many years anNBA head coach)
MSU-Tom Izzo. Never a college head coach. Old as sin.
Michigan-Juwan Howard. Never a head coach. Longtime NBA assistant.
PSU-Micah Shrewsberry. Previously a head coach. (IU South Bend)
Wisco-Greg Gard. Never a head coach.
OSU-Chris Holtmann. Previously a head coach. (Butler)
Nebraska-Fred Hoiberg. Previously a head coach (Iowa St)
Minnesota-Ben Johnson. Never a head coach.

So by my count 5 coaches have not have previous college head coaching experience though one has extensive NBA HC experience.
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So the real number is 4 out of 14, which is already 3 more than I expected.

It makes absolutely, absurdly no sense to hire someone who has never been a head coach, for a Big Ten head coach opening.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Hey, I am very disappointed. I thought this team was going to be a lot better. I was obviously wrong.

and now the question really does become - what happens next?

No matter how deeply Coyle is buried in the secret bunker, he has to be aware of what's happening, and what that means for ticket sales, advertising, donations, etc.

So, I have come to this line of thinking: the Gophers will need to show significant improvement next year or Johnson is gone. I'm not talking about a little better - I'm talking about a LOT better. The players have to show individual improvement and the team has to show team improvement.

Another season even close to this one, and I think Coyle will have no choice - he will have to pull the plug.

in fact, I'll take it a step farther - if next season is as bad as this year, Johnson will not make it through the season.
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It was reasonable to expect this team to be better than this. Repeating from another thread, with Garcia coming on board, Battle's success last year, and signing the state's Mr. Basketball, my minimum expectation was avoiding Wednesday of the BTT and some kind of postseason berth. I even thought an NCAA bid was possible if everything went well and some of the newcomers were better than expected.
 

atsgopher said:
Thanks. I had Painter, Shrews, and Hoiberg as never a head coach when they started in B10. I guess Hoiberg is an equivalent for the spirit of the original question, as he first job was P6.
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Fair point, but at the end of the day the Big Ten is the top of the food chain. You should only be hiring guys who have all the appearances of being a shark in the ocean.

Hiring a guy who has never been a head coach anywhere … that’s like hiring a guy who you don’t even know can swim. It’s just absurd
 

Gophers_4life said:
So the real number is 4 out of 14, which is already 3 more than I expected.

It makes absolutely, absurdly no sense to hire someone who has never been a head coach, for a Big Ten head coach opening.
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And as others have pointed some (Collins) spent a long time as an assistant to a great coach. Ben…did not.
 

bga1 said:
This is a really solid post. Thanks! So the guys that were never a head coach:

Chris Collins - handed a tough program and has had tough results- has it going in year 10 and had one NCAA- learned under Coach K

Juwann Howard- handed a great program and has been okay

Izzo- was handed a program that had Magic and won a natty and he was already the assistant- assuring a good handoff

Woodson- handed a great program that was currently in a trough but Indiana is close to blue blood- again he's been okay

It's one thing to have never coached and get handed a program that is already historically successful and has the name and history you can recruit to. It is totally another to get one that is struggling to get out of the bottom and has done so for 20+ years.

Of all of these Izzo is really the only homerun. Chris Collins is the expected result. He sits at 60-116. (.341) He succeeded Carmody who was 70-150 (.316) (after going an incredible 50-6 at Princeton).
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Collins took a tough job. I think he’ll be alright. May be a career job for him. Get to middle
Of the pack and ride it out.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Make no mistake, the declining relevance, attendance and revenue generated by this program are a very serious situation. I question the intelligence and wisdom of anyone who isn't coming a little unglued at this point.
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The game results, attendance, etc., this year has ZERO effect on future years.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
His only 2024 recruit is a 6'4" guard, just imagine that weak ass wingspan.

They may have guards, competent basketball and some wins but they don't have sh!t for wingspan in the pipeline.

We dodged a bullet there fellas.
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The TROLLS mock us Gopher fans for obsessing over wingspan...they turn 'wingspan' into a mantra to mock us...even though we barely mentioned it.

We like Evans because he's been evaluated as a 5-star.
 



EasyThere Pilgrim said:
The TROLLS mock us Gopher fans for obsessing over wingspan...they turn 'wingspan' into a mantra to mock us...even though we barely mentioned it.

We like Evans because he's been evaluated as a 5-star.
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This isn't true.
 


Gophers_4life said:
So the real number is 4 out of 14, which is already 3 more than I expected.

It makes absolutely, absurdly no sense to hire someone who has never been a head coach, for a Big Ten head coach opening.
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Why? Izzo has done really well. Gard, as much as I hate WI and how they play, has done well. When you have a longtime assistant who know's your university, is respected in the community, and you know is capable of the job, why wouldn't you hire them. It's very different hiring someone with no head coaching experience from within than from outside.
 

Tucker32 said:
Why? Izzo has done really well. Gard, as much as I hate WI and how they play, has done well. When you have a longtime assistant who know's your university, is respected in the community, and you know is capable of the job, why wouldn't you hire them. It's very different hiring someone with no head coaching experience from within than from outside.
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It depends on what the guy with no experience is taking over. If he is taking over a program in great shape- like Izzo or Gard- that's probably going to go great. If the ship is floundering or sinking, what on earth are you hiring from within for? It is not likely to go well.
 

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