What grade do you give Ben Johnson for his first year?

What grade do you give Ben Johnson for his first year?

  • A

    Votes: 14 5.9%

  • B

    Votes: 75 31.8%

  • C

    Votes: 92 39.0%

  • D

    Votes: 41 17.4%

  • F

    Votes: 14 5.9%
  • Total voters
    236
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I went with B. While, the roster formation did not seem ideal, initially. I think it allows for better possibilities next year after recruits can see the competitiveness, coaching competence etc. We have room to add transfers. We can balance classes better.

Battle, Fox and Ihnen hopefully form a nice building base with the transfer additions giving the four freshman time to assimilate at their pace. Battle is a major plus offensively. So, that warrants a big positive.

Coaching wise, yes, I could nitpick but overall Ben was very impressive. We had guys miss in and out during the Big Ten season making things more difficult.

My biggest huh? was the recruiting of Thiam. I said he couldn't shoot from a one minute video at the time and was proven correct.

Overall, Ben way exceeded my expectations. Did some very nice things out of timeouts. Had game plans that seemed logical. I'm optimistic we'll get similar or better guys in the portal to go with Battle, Ihnen and Fox plus the freshmen and that's a way stronger team in year two.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That’s a part of the problem and deserves to factor into the grade. Roster construction was so poor, which Ben is 100% responsible for, that this team was supposed to be terrible.

Man how far this program has fallen when a last place finish gets a B or a C grade. Last deserves nothing higher than an F.
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He had two players on his roster. Ihnen, who didn't suit up and TT, Petino's recruit who was a year away from being ready. Everybody else had transferred out and Pitino's better recruit (Pohto) withdrew.

There are coaches who, because of name and reputation, could have come to Minnesota and quickly assembled a loaded roster. None of those coaches would dream of taking the Gopher job then or ever. The program has just run down too low.

So in grading Johnson it's not about wins this year. It's how did he fare vs what available coaching alternatives?

I'd say at worst a B. Got Curry to fill in for a year at risk of later life loss of mobility and considerable pain doing what he really should not be doing.

Landed Willis, an upper-tier portal guy. Got Battle, a recognized portal prospect. Got Fox, one of the most sought players in the portal. Got Stephens, who was better than Trey Williams. Loewe and Sutherlin were better than their resumes would have suggested.

He failed to get a post player after Fox and Ihnen went down. He wanted one badly because he could foresee the futility of playing Curry more than 15 minutes and TT at all. Tried for several serviceable big guys and struck out. Charlie was a late desperate gambit to add 6'9' 230 to take up space. Charlie Daniels, Daniel Charles ... Didn't matter.

And while all the portal drama was transpiring he needed to land his first class of Big Ten recruits. He did that well.

We can feel for those who need the security of unhappiness because the Gophers always suck and nobody can convince you a budget coach is as good as Bill Self or Mark Few. Others can feel good about the season because our coach and players did one helluva job faced with overwhelming odds.
 

I went with a C.

we are, in fact, talking about a rookie head coach. Starting as a 1st-time head coach for a P5 program is a challenge. some people argued against hiring Johnson for that same reason. he had a lot to learn on the job, and had to do it with with an........unusual.....roster situation.

Next year is going to be very important. Johnson has a chance to show what he has learned in multiple areas - recruiting, roster management, in-game adjustments, and yes, use of the bench.

If we are back here next year having the exact same conversation, then that is a big problem.
 

Dakota2 said:
He had two players on his roster. Ihnen, who didn't suit up and TT, Petino's recruit who was a year away from being ready. Everybody else had transferred out and Pitino's better recruit (Pohto) withdrew.

There are coaches who, because of name and reputation, could have come to Minnesota and quickly assembled a loaded roster. None of those coaches would dream of taking the Gopher job then or ever. The program has just run down too low.

So in grading Johnson it's not about wins this year. It's how did he fare vs what available coaching alternatives?

I'd say at worst a B. Got Curry to fill in for a year at risk of later life loss of mobility and considerable pain doing what he really should not be doing.

Landed Willis, an upper-tier portal guy. Got Battle, a recognized portal prospect. Got Fox, one of the most sought players in the portal. Got Stephens, who was better than Trey Williams. Loewe and Sutherlin were better than their resumes would have suggested.

He failed to get a post player after Fox and Ihnen went down. He wanted one badly because he could foresee the futility of playing Curry more than 15 minutes and TT at all. Tried for several serviceable big guys and struck out. Charlie was a late desperate gambit to add 6'9' 230 to take up space. Charlie Daniels, Daniel Charles ... Didn't matter.

And while all the portal drama was transpiring he needed to land his first class of Big Ten recruits. He did that well.

We can feel for those who need the security of unhappiness because the Gophers always suck and nobody can convince you a budget coach is as good as Bill Self or Mark Few. Others can feel good about the season because our coach and players did one helluva job faced with overwhelming odds.
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People continue to act like not having Ihnen and Fox is like not having Murphy and Oturu, when it's more like not having Elliot Elliason and Charles Buggs. And I like Fox and think he can be good, but we don't know how good until we see it.

All of the other transfers you mentioned contributed to a last place team.

At 2 million per year the Gophers could have hired a coach with significant head coaching experience.

Instead they hired a guy who had zero head coaching experience, who couldn't land a mid-major head coaching job, and they didn't give him a budget salary. No one was expecting Bill Self or Mark Few.

Last night was an embarrassment to end one of the worst seasons in Gopher basketball history.
 

Incomplete.
He needs at least three years to show significant improvement in the BIG.
If there is no improvement F, and expelled.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
People continue to act like not having Ihnen and Fox is like not having Murphy and Oturu, when it's more like not having Elliot Elliason and Charles Buggs. And I like Fox and think he can be good, but we don't know how good until we see it.

All of the other transfers you mentioned contributed to a last place team.

At 2 million per year the Gophers could have hired a coach with significant head coaching experience.

Instead they hired a guy who had zero head coaching experience, who couldn't land a mid-major head coaching job, and they didn't give him a budget salary. No one was expecting Bill Self or Mark Few.

Last night was an embarrassment to end one of the worst seasons in Gopher basketball history.
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Yup,
 

Plato said:
Incomplete.
He needs at least three years to show significant improvement in the BIG.
If there is no improvement F, and expelled.
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Unless the wheels come completely off, he'll get more than three years.
 

Hates Monikers said:
The roster needed to be better. In the absence of talent, I was okay with loading up on experienced players to develop a culture and system, and that was working well through January. But the way the season ended was inexcusable. Basically blown off the court in first halves against Nebraska, Northwestern and Penn State. If players were worn down, that's on Ben for the roster and lack of development (or talent) of the freshmen. We're starting from scratch again next year with no real reason to expect anything different. D.
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We are not starting from scratch again. We start with three guys .. Battle, Fox and Ihnen plus four Big Ten recruits. Less portal pieces needed but still critical to get a good true PG, one or even two guards, and one serious post player.
 




Bad Gopher said:
This is why it's so hard to grade. Was it even possible for him to retain some of the previous roster? One way or another, that happened on his watch, and he wasn't in any different position than any other first-year coach in the NCAA. I found the degree of desertion shocking at the time, and I'm still kind of freaked out by it.

I do like the pieces he was able to get on short notice, although it certainly fell short of what we'd have hoped. EG mentioned Garcia, Thompson, and Mitchell, and even though it's tempting to think of them as out of our league, it's important to reflect on why Coyle said he brought in such an inexperienced head coach: the belief he'd be an ace recruiter of local talent. If your AD is going to establish high expectations among the fans, you'll eventually face the prospect of having to meet them.

I appreciate how quickly this team of newcomers gelled together. That was extraordinary and cannot be understated. It appears as though the team reached its potential early, which is great, but never had the ability to get very much better, which isn't great.
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Is there a coach you know who could have pulled Race Thompson from Indiana to Minnesota?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
People continue to act like not having Ihnen and Fox is like not having Murphy and Oturu, when it's more like not having Elliot Elliason and Charles Buggs. And I like Fox and think he can be good, but we don't know how good until we see it.

All of the other transfers you mentioned contributed to a last place team.

At 2 million per year the Gophers could have hired a coach with significant head coaching experience.

Instead they hired a guy who had zero head coaching experience, who couldn't land a mid-major head coaching job, and they didn't give him a budget salary. No one was expecting Bill Self or Mark Few.

Last night was an embarrassment to end one of the worst seasons in Gopher basketball history.
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The injuries forced a potential 8 or 9 man rotation with 8 B1G caliber players to a 7 man rotation with 6 B1G caliber players. To pretend like the injuries had nothing to do with the result of the season is very clownish. Not surprising with how much of a hypocrite you are.
 

BarnBurner said:
Just stop. You repeatedly use this excuse, and that is exactly what it is. Injuries happen to all teams. This season wasn't unique or any other term you love to use.

Ihnen would have benefitted the team, no doubt. I think he can rebound a bit, and his defense was a bit better near the end of last season. Would it have meant a win or two more? Could have.

From all accounts, Fox is not a shooter. Slasher is the term most use. Is he going to rebound well at 6-8 220? In the Big 10? Maybe. Again, how many more wins this season? Same as above.

I dont see either of them as a high impact player that would have made a huge difference in wins this season. Hope I am wrong as I really like II.

CBJ needs to sign kids that will be impact players, quickly. Next season is pivotal, imo. Another season of less than mediocre in therms of wins will put CBJ on tough ground, imo.

I have watched this program for darn near 50 years. Nothing I want more than going to The Barn to an atmosphere like the 90's. It was special. The Barn was a blast when the team returned home around midnight after punching the FF ticket. Something I will never forget.
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Did all teams lose two starters before the season? Not all, then how many? How many in our conference?

So you are not high on Fox I guess. At least not as high as the 50 D1 coaches who wanted him. Why should a genius like you be impressed with a 6'8 guy with a 40" vertical. He probably can't rebound or score inside.
 

Dakota2 said:
Did all teams lose two starters before the season? Not all, then how many? How many in our conference?

So you are not high on Fox I guess. At least not as high as the 50 D1 coaches who wanted him. Why should a genius like you be impressed with a 6'8 guy with a 40" vertical. He probably can't rebound or score inside.
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Stop the excuses. You too DIKota

Hope Fox is great, better than Battle and Willis combined. We shall see.
 






short ornery norwegian said:
I went with a C.

we are, in fact, talking about a rookie head coach. Starting as a 1st-time head coach for a P5 program is a challenge. some people argued against hiring Johnson for that same reason. he had a lot to learn on the job, and had to do it with with an........unusual.....roster situation.

Next year is going to be very important. Johnson has a chance to show what he has learned in multiple areas - recruiting, roster management, in-game adjustments, and yes, use of the bench.

If we are back here next year having the exact same conversation, then that is a big problem.
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He used his bench appropriately. He had very little bench and he used it sparingly in order to establish the first priority -- trying to win every game.
 

Unfortunately even if graded on a curve last place is still last place and is an F to me. Fortunately he gets to retake the same class next year.
 


Dakota2 said:
He used his bench appropriately. He had very little bench and he used it sparingly in order to establish the first priority -- trying to win every game.
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Nope.
First priority is culture development and nurturing. Been told that right here on gh hundreds of times.
Culture.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
The injuries forced a potential 8 or 9 man rotation with 8 B1G caliber players to a 7 man rotation with 6 B1G caliber players. To pretend like the injuries had nothing to do with the result of the season is very clownish. Not surprising with how much of a hypocrite you are.
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Where am I being a hypocrite? Ihnen has proven nothing and Fox was a top DII player, with plenty to prove at this level. If they were healthy, Curry retires, and TT and Daniels likely don't play at all, meaning you're still looking at a 6 man rotation.

The majority of the games down the stretch were not close. And that was the softest part of their schedule. That's what's most concerning. Those two players wouldn't have moved the needle much on this team.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Where am I being a hypocrite? Ihnen has proven nothing and Fox was a top DII player, with plenty to prove at this level. If they were healthy, Curry retires, and TT and Daniels likely don't play at all, meaning you're still looking at a 6 man rotation.

The majority of the games down the stretch were not close. And that was the softest part of their schedule. That's what's most concerning. Those two players wouldn't have moved the needle much on this team.
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Curry announced his return before Ihnen got hurt.

Ah yes no possible way a 20 and 10 guy at the D2 level would have helped a team severely lacking rim protection and rebounding. There's no way a player with similar stats at the D2 level is the leading scorer and rebounder (who Parker dominated) for Creighton this year.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't know how you don't give him an F. The Gophers finished last and were the 14 seed for the first time ever in the Big Ten Tournament. That's not an F?

Compared to last season the offense was worse, the defense was just as bad, and somehow the bench was even shorter than under Pitino.

Now Ben has to completely rebuild the roster for the second year in a row to try and avoid finishing dead last again next season.
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There are 9 scholarship players for next year instead of 0. Also remember every big ten writer picked UMN to finish last. So expectations were met.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I said C. Having to completely redo almost the entire roster in that short of a period is tough to do. The first half of the season was fun, the second half not so much. Still optimistic about the future, but obviously still a ton of work to do.
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My thoughts too. I gave him a C. Were it not for the end of the season, a B would have been appropriate. We should have won either or both of the WI games.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Curry announced his return before Ihnen got hurt.

Ah yes no possible way a 20 and 10 guy at the D2 level would have helped a team severely lacking rim protection and rebounding. There's no way a player with similar stats at the D2 level is the leading scorer and rebounder (who Parker dominated) for Creighton this year.
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And after Fox got hurt. Ihnen also isn't a PF like everyone is trying to make him out to be.

And where did I say Fox wouldn't help? The Gophers were getting regularly blown out, Fox isn't making a 20 point difference.

Hawkins is a different player than Fox. He's a great 3 point shooter, and Fox has very little outside game.

Where again am I being a hypocrite?
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
The injuries forced a potential 8 or 9 man rotation with 8 B1G caliber players to a 7 man rotation with 6 B1G caliber players. To pretend like the injuries had nothing to do with the result of the season is very clownish. Not surprising with how much of a hypocrite you are.
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I think most people will give him a relative pass for not having a complete roster in year one. But filling a roster and/or retaining players is probably more important than any task a head coach needs to perform. Having five scholarships either go unused and/or are not occupied by players capable (or willing to go in?) in the last game of the year or of the college career in a couple cases is not a good look. We don't know much about Fox's effectiveness at a higher level and Ihnen has been somewhat of an enigma his entire career so I'm not sure that is the only reason for overall lack of success this year. Maybe you are right.

There has been many posts about "expectations" here. Expectations are largely set by circumstance. Pitino won a coach of the year award in conference in large part because they had set the bar so low the previous year. Ben Johnson won four conference games out of 21 in year one in large part because he set the bar so low with the retention of last year's roster and perhaps more scary with the lack of development of 4 scholarship players. Sadly, almost all the production leaves via graduation and doesn't provide a huge deal of hope (at least initially) for next year. Our "expectations" will be low again.

That's a D in my book with an understanding he has plenty of time to turn it around.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
And after Fox got hurt. Ihnen also isn't a PF like everyone is trying to make him out to be.

And where did I say Fox wouldn't help? The Gophers were getting regularly blown out, Fox isn't making a 20 point difference.

Hawkins is a different player than Fox. He's a great 3 point shooter, and Fox has very little outside game.

Where again am I being a hypocrite?
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You defending PJ Fleck to no end after year 1. Of course if Craig Smith got hired you would be defending him to no end as well. Just asking for some consistency.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
You defending PJ Fleck to no end after year 1. Of course if Craig Smith got hired you would be defending him to no end as well. Just asking for some consistency.
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I was right about PJ Fleck. For Smith, it would really depend on how he constructed the roster this year, how he's recruiting, and how the team has played down the stretch. If I was a Utah fan, I would be concerned right now as well.

Smith still has a proven track record as a head coach. Johnson does not.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
People continue to act like not having Ihnen and Fox is like not having Murphy and Oturu, when it's more like not having Elliot Elliason and Charles Buggs. And I like Fox and think he can be good, but we don't know how good until we see it.

All of the other transfers you mentioned contributed to a last place team.

At 2 million per year the Gophers could have hired a coach with significant head coaching experience.

Instead they hired a guy who had zero head coaching experience, who couldn't land a mid-major head coaching job, and they didn't give him a budget salary. No one was expecting Bill Self or Mark Few.

Last night was an embarrassment to end one of the worst seasons in Gopher basketball history.
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Your right they could have hired a coach with head coaching experience who very likely could have fielded a better team this year. Does that mean that coach will build a better program long term than Ben? I don’t know and I’m guessing you don’t either.
 

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