Confernce Realignment Chaos is Here!!!!!! (maybe ... probabbly not) (Rumor Texas and OK reach out to SEC about joining)

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MplsGopher said:
Believe it or not, UA Birmingham makes a lot of sense for them. New football stadium, new practice facilities in last few years, solid research (UA's medical school and campus), and major college football market.

Some thing Rice, for somewhat similar reasons, would be a good replacement for Houston. Less sure on that one though.


If Mountain West does lose schools, some thinking that it could be a generational chance for Dakota (State), and Montana schools to make the move up.
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NDSU and Montana seem like great candidates -- but so did Idaho when they made the jump to FBS. I concede that I do not know anything about why Idaho failed other than the fact that they did.
 

noamfromm said:
NDSU and Montana seem like great candidates -- but so did Idaho when they made the jump to FBS. I concede that I do not know anything about why Idaho failed other than the fact that they did.
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Once upon several decades ago, Idaho and Boise St were both in the (I-AA) Big Sky conference with Montana schools and were bitter in-state rivals. Idaho-Montana was also a nice rivalry.

Then Boise moved up to I-A in the (at the time) Big West conference. Idaho decided to give chase.

Their respective situations were miles apart and Idaho was maybe one of the worst I-A scenarios in the country: out in the middle of no where Idaho, no freeway to there just mountain roads from within Idaho, and worst of all Washington State literally down the road across the state border.


They gave it the good fight for a couple decades, but Boise pulled away and left them in the dust. At some point, you have to stop throwing good money after bad.

Big Sky was their rightful home. And they are back in it.


Granted, they always pined for a Mountain West invite, and that would have saved them. But like New Mexico State, the other, bigger in state school always blocked it.
 

MplsGopher said:
Once upon several decades ago, Idaho and Boise St were both in the (I-AA) Big Sky conference with Montana schools and were bitter in-state rivals. Idaho-Montana was also a nice rivalry.

Then Boise moved up to I-A in the (at the time) Big West conference. Idaho decided to give chase.

Their respective situations were miles apart and Idaho was maybe one of the worst I-A scenarios in the country: out in the middle of no where Idaho, no freeway to there just mountain roads from within Idaho, and worst of all Washington State literally down the road across the state border.


They gave it the good fight for a couple decades, but Boise pulled away and left them in the dust. At some point, you have to stop throwing good money after bad.

Big Sky was their rightful home. And they are back in it.


Granted, they always pined for a Mountain West invite, and that would have saved them. But like New Mexico State, the other, bigger in state school always blocked it.
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How do you know so much? Regardless, thanks for the info. Good stuff.
 

Can't remember where, but I heard that some believe the G5 conferences should really just align and make regional PODs for all sports. It would build rivalries and save money. They even mentioned that it should be considered for non-revenue sports. The example was, why should Boston College Tennis go to Miami to get drilled 7-0, when then could play teams in the NE region. Travel for non-revenue sports makes no sense.

G5 conferences could build up regional play and build up programs by saving a ton of money.

Like I read somewhere else: Are teams moving to the Big 12 getting a promotion or just being merged? Outside of the Top 4 conferences, the movement seems to just be conferences that think they are valued more than they really are.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Can't remember where, but I heard that some believe the G5 conferences should really just align and make regional PODs for all sports. It would build rivalries and save money. They even mentioned that it should be considered for non-revenue sports. The example was, why should Boston College Tennis go to Miami to get drilled 7-0, when then could play teams in the NE region. Travel for non-revenue sports makes no sense.

G5 conferences could build up regional play and build up programs by saving a ton of money.

Like I read somewhere else: Are teams moving to the Big 12 getting a promotion or just being merged? Outside of the Top 4 conferences, the movement seems to just be conferences that think they are valued more than they really are.
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Moving from the current AAC to the Big 12 minus UT and OU, will still be a bump for schools like UCF and Houston.

It won't be the bump that TCU got. But still maybe something halfway up.
 

Big 12 should just collapse into other conferences with Iowa St going to B10 and other schools being migrated elsewhere
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Can't remember where, but I heard that some believe the G5 conferences should really just align and make regional PODs for all sports. It would build rivalries and save money. They even mentioned that it should be considered for non-revenue sports. The example was, why should Boston College Tennis go to Miami to get drilled 7-0, when then could play teams in the NE region. Travel for non-revenue sports makes no sense.

G5 conferences could build up regional play and build up programs by saving a ton of money.

Like I read somewhere else: Are teams moving to the Big 12 getting a promotion or just being merged? Outside of the Top 4 conferences, the movement seems to just be conferences that think they are valued more than they really are.
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This seems like a good idea, especially from the rivalry point of view.
 

noamfromm said:
NDSU and Montana seem like great candidates -- but so did Idaho when they made the jump to FBS. I concede that I do not know anything about why Idaho failed other than the fact that they did.
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To add to what MplsGopher said, Idaho's facilities are also sub-par. They play in the Kibbie Dome, which is sort of a quonset hut thing that holds only 16,500. (to compare, the FargoDome holds just under 20,000 for football.) I think they also started FBS football in the WAC, and when they stopped sponsoring football and everyone went to the MWC, they and NMSU were left out.

Bison fans, delusional as they are, seem to be on both sides of the issue. Many think they should already be in FBS. Others realize the remote location and the cost to move up are prohibitive to any such move.
 



kix4kix said:
Big 12 should just collapse into other conferences with Iowa St going to B10 and other schools being migrated elsewhere
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The B1G gains nothing with ISU. U of Iowa gains nothing. ISU fans toot the "50%-50%" split of fans inside the state Iowa, but its more like 20%-80%, maybe even less for ISU. Outside Ames and southern Des Moines, the Cyclones are an afterthought.
 

BleedGopher said:
Conference realignment: The American could add new schools soon, and the Mountain West is a target

Conference realignment isn’t slowing down, and American Athletic Conference commissioner Mike Aresco believes his league could add new members in a matter of weeks, rather than months.

Aresco made the comments in a brief interview with The Athletic after Wednesday’s College Football Playoff meeting involving all 10 FBS commissioners and Notre Dame’s athletic director.

“We’ve engaged only with people that had an interest,” Aresco said.

It’s been a frantic several weeks in the Group of 5 on the topic of realignment. There was a race for the Big 12, but AAC members Cincinnati, Houston and UCF only needed to submit a short official letter in the end to get the official invitation, as they stood out from the pack from a television, financial and athletic success perspective. From there, attention turned to the AAC, which is now looking for two to four additions to restock.

That’s where things get complicated. Some schools very much want an invitation from the AAC. Some schools question the value of the conference, especially if Memphis gets a Big 12 invitation in a few years. And some believe that those downplaying the AAC are only jealous they’re not in the AAC conversation. Everyone has a different opinion. These are petty times.

Moving to the SEC or up to the Big 12 was an easy decision. Decisions now are not as clear. Still, schools are putting together their information and pitches, should the opportunity arise.

Aresco would not hint at or name any schools the AAC is considering, but a western wing of Mountain West schools is believed to be among the top targets, including Boise State, San Diego State, Colorado State and Air Force, according to other sources. All four have athletic budgets around $50 million, which is in the AAC’s range. But in the weeks since AAC spots opened up, it’s Colorado State and Air Force that are believed to be more interested in leaving than the other two.

Boise State and SDSU once briefly agreed to join the Big East, and the Broncos have previously had discussions with the AAC. But Boise State will be a top target if the Big 12 expands again, and commissioner Bob Bowlsby has said further expansion is very much on the table. So the potential of paying two conference exit fees within a few years with a move to the AAC is not appealing. SDSU has its sights on a Power 5 invitation as well. The travel costs in the AAC for Boise State and SDSU would also be greater than the two Colorado schools. Sending volleyball teams to Philadelphia and Greenville, N.C., is not a draw.

There’s also doubt about the future of the AAC’s television deal. AAC schools currently make about $6 million annually, but that is bound to go down without the three departing programs and their sizable television audiences. How much so has been up for debate. The Mountain West distributes about $4 million annually, but Boise State receives its own carve-out for its home games that can be worth an additional $1.8 million. (That carve-out has frustrated other MWC schools, and the league’s attempt to change it led to a threat of a lawsuit from Boise State in 2020.)

Still, there’s a belief that, with Cincinnati, Houston and UCF leaving for the Big 12, earning a Group of 5 spot in a potential expanded College Football Playoff should be easier moving forward. For a big fish in a smaller pond, there may be no need to change conferences within the G5.

Meanwhile, for Air Force and Colorado State, travel east would be a bit easier than for Boise State and San Diego State, and the Mountain West already requires plane travel to most other schools for them. The flip side of the Memphis question: There’s a concern about the MWC’s value if Boise State receives a future Big 12 invitation, and there’s a feeling of needing to get ahead of that move. And again, the value of an AAC that adds these schools is up for debate. As a service academy, Air Force has a national fan base, and adding the Mountain time zone could add more broadcast windows for the AAC, in hopes of offsetting the loss of three major teams.

Sources outside the AAC and MWC are skeptical there will be much, if any, financial gain in leaving the MWC for the AAC, at least in the short term. But these aren’t short-term moves, and moods around conference movement can change by the day.

theathletic.com

Conference realignment: The American could add new schools soon, and the Mountain West is a target

A western wing of Mountain West schools is believed to be among the top conference realignment targets for the AAC.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Go Gophers!!
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Is the AAC really that much better than the MWC?
 

discochris said:
To add to what MplsGopher said, Idaho's facilities are also sub-par. They play in the Kibbie Dome, which is sort of a quonset hut thing that holds only 16,500. (to compare, the FargoDome holds just under 20,000 for football.) I think they also started FBS football in the WAC, and when they stopped sponsoring football and everyone went to the MWC, they and NMSU were left out.

Bison fans, delusional as they are, seem to be on both sides of the issue. Many think they should already be in FBS. Others realize the remote location and the cost to move up are prohibitive to any such move.
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There used to be three Western I-A conferences below the PAC, with the Big West, WAC, and Mountain West all co-existing for a time (after the MW broke off from the WAC).

Boise and Idaho both started out in the Big West, at the bottom of the ladder. Idaho had been chasing Boise around up the rungs, but never could get the invite to the MW to sustain being FBS. I'm guessing the Boise president made sure of that.


In hindsight, it is just plain silly that Idaho and Washington State were located so close. I'm sure there is history there.

If UI had even been in Coeur d'Alene, that would have probably worked.
 

Why SEC wants 12 team playoff -->#12 teams in 2020 = 4 (including TX,OK =5)
2019 = 5 (6)
2018 = 4 (5)
2017 = 4 (6)
2016 = 3 (4)

B1G by comparison 2020 = 2
2019 = 2
2018 = 2
2017 = 2
2016 = 3

One of the things that should also be noted. In almost every instance the poll to determine bowl placement has SEC team higher and B1G ranked lower. Meaning there is a better chance of the last team added in the B1G getting bumped out than the SEC one getting bumped. Also, the final poll always had more B1G teams in final 12 it than the one used for rankings bowls. The bias for the SEC is huge and will not go away. SEC wants 12 team tournament with rules their way so 25% of the revenue can go to them. This will be a cash cow for them. I have no doubt PAC/B1G and ACC will want a more even distribution of funds.
 



gophernut1 said:
Why SEC wants 12 team playoff -->#12 teams in 2020 = 4 (including TX,OK =5)
2019 = 5 (6)
2018 = 4 (5)
2017 = 4 (6)
2016 = 3 (4)

B1G by comparison 2020 = 2
2019 = 2
2018 = 2
2017 = 2
2016 = 3

One of the things that should also be noted. In almost every instance the poll to determine bowl placement has SEC team higher and B1G ranked lower. Meaning there is a better chance of the last team added in the B1G getting bumped out than the SEC one getting bumped. Also, the final poll always had more B1G teams in final 12 it than the one used for rankings bowls. The bias for the SEC is huge and will not go away. SEC wants 12 team tournament with rules their way so 25% of the revenue can go to them. This will be a cash cow for them. I have no doubt PAC/B1G and ACC will want a more even distribution of funds.
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Well it won't be as simple as just the top 12 ... it's the highest ranked six conf champs, then plus the highest ranked six teams after that. That's the latest proposal that was made public. Don't know if that will end up being it.
 

MplsGopher said:
There used to be three Western I-A conferences below the PAC, with the Big West, WAC, and Mountain West all co-existing for a time (after the MW broke off from the WAC).

Boise and Idaho both started out in the Big West, at the bottom of the ladder. Idaho had been chasing Boise around up the rungs, but never could get the invite to the MW to sustain being FBS. I'm guessing the Boise president made sure of that.


In hindsight, it is just plain silly that Idaho and Washington State were located so close. I'm sure there is history there.

If UI had even been in Coeur d'Alene, that would have probably worked.
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Well, different states, different legislatures just developed differently. I think back in those days, the legislatures placed institutions like colleges, prisons, VA hospitals, state schools for the deaf etc. in different cities as either favors or to spread them around.

Wazzu and Idaho are both land grant schools, so it makes sense they were located in areas where agriculture is important. I've always thought it odd that the U of M is a land grant school, rather than the land grant school being in say, Morris.

Edit: The land grant status was originally to go to a public college in Glencoe, but it never materialized and it moved to the U.
 

There are a lot of interesting differences in the Land-Grant institutions (even just those that received funds from the 1862 Morrill Act) over the states.

For some states, such as Washington (along with Michigan and Iowa, as two other examples), indeed the LG funds were explicitly used to create, or given to, a separate college dedicated to agriculture. Each of those states already had a University of ____, established either before the Morrill Act itself or in Washington's case before they gained statehood (and thus access to LG funds).

Other states either simply designated the existing state chartered university as the institution that would receive LG funding, and thus meet the LG mission of agriculture, etc. (Minnesota and Wisconsin being two examples), or they used the funds to actually establish their state's chartered university (usually being western states, that gained statehood after the act). Idaho is one such case.

Idaho: "On January 30, 1889, Governor Edward Stevenson of the Idaho Territory signed the territorial legislature's Council Bill No. 20, which officially established the UI as the upcoming state's land-grant institution. Nearly four years later, the university opened for classes on October 3, 1892. The choice of location for the University of Idaho was an 'Olive Branch of Peace' by Gov. Stevenson for his actions in styming the nearly successful effort to detach the north Idaho Panhandle and join the state of Washington".

WSU: "After an exhaustive examination of bidding towns such as Yakima and other towns on the wheat-growing Palouse region, the state's new land-grant college opened to 59 students in Pullman on January 13, 1892 ... Pullman was possibly selected because of a generous land gift by the city and its railroad connections to Spokane and Portland, Oregon".


It would have been known at the time that the WSU location was being determined, that Idaho's chartered state university would be located in Moscow. So one might speculate that the choice of Pullman, literally down the road from Moscow, might have been done purposefully in an attempt to undermine the new Idaho school.
 
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https://www.espn.com/college-footba...ock-says-group-luxury-determine-future-format

Following a second College Football Playoff meeting in as many weeks, executive director Bill Hancock told reporters on Tuesday the decision-makers tasked with determining the future format of the sport's postseason "have the luxury of time" to figure it out.

The playoff is in the midst of its eighth season of a 12-year contract in which ESPN is the exclusive rights holder through the 2025 season.

"We have time, because if the event is going to change before the end of the term, the end of the 12 years, we have three or four months," Hancock said. "If it's going to change in Year 13, then we have a couple of years."

The 10 FBS commissioners and Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick met for about two hours in a hotel conference room near the Big Ten headquarters, and the CFP's board of managers, which is comprised of the 11 presidents and chancellors who have the power to change the playoff, joined them via video conference for the second half of the meeting.

...

The complexities they discussed start with the number of games, and there is still consideration in the room for four-, eight- and 12-team formats, though the 12-team proposal is the only option that the commissioners spent the summer soliciting feedback on from their respective leagues.

Other topics included the calendar, and how a wider field would impact the bowl games -- including the Rose Bowl, which is clinging to its media rights and traditional Jan. 1 time slot. They also discussed media rights, but Hancock said ESPN television executives were not a part of Tuesday's discussions.

"The format will be done before television," Hancock said.

If the playoff format were to change before then, ESPN would have first rights to any new games. If college football's power brokers are determined to take the playoff to multiple media entities as a way of maximizing revenue, it would need to wait until after 2025 or work out an arrangement with ESPN.

"In last week's meeting, it became clear for the first time that all 11 members of the management committee now believe we have to have multiple distributors of our postseason content," one source with knowledge of the discussions said.

While there has been some concern over the postseason games occurring during exam weeks for some schools, Hancock said the CFP postseason can only be determined after the NCAA's Football Oversight Committee announces when the season will begin. The FOC is in charge of setting dates for spring practices, summer camps and the actual start of the season.

"The CFP reacts to that," Hancock said. "The calendar is more about when the games are played, and that includes where they're playing."
 

Bolded: with Texas and OU going to the SEC no later than starting with the 2025 (which is the last season of the current CFP contract), it's obvious that they've decided ESPN has too much control and power.

This can only be a good thing. NFL model works great with to main providers.
 

If they go to a 12 team playoff, there should be a max per conference of 3-4 teams.
Having more than 4 would ruin the playoff.

If it's left open, SEC will always have too many teams in the top 6 of polls.
It will always be Florida, A&M or Auburn ahead of an Iowa or Northwestern.
 

As you can probably imagine, moves at the top lead to domino effects that roll downward.

Now we're getting into the ramifications for smaller conferences, that most people here won't care about. But I'll put this here, for any of those who might have a passing interest.


https://www.espn.com/college-footba...ially-apply-join-american-athletic-conference

The American Athletic Conference has received applications from six schools hoping to join the conference, and the AAC is expected to send them each a formal letter by the end of the week detailing the terms of expansion, a source with knowledge of the process told ESPN on Tuesday.

Florida Atlantic, Charlotte, North Texas, UTSA, Rice and UAB have each officially requested to join the AAC, a move that was first reported by Yahoo Sports on Monday. It's the first step in the realignment process, which is expected to move quickly this week after the university presidents and their general counsels have time to review the terms.



This Tweet shows the map of the new AAC for football only, note that Wichita State is also a member but doesn't play football, while their "partner" Navy only plays football. In fact leading to Navy playing in the Western division of the league, oddly.

 

This leaves CUSA with only 8 teams. The Sun Belt has 10 football schools, plus two more non-football schools.

Some speculate CUSA will in turn try to pick off some from the SB, and so on ...
 

Face The Facts said:
If they go to a 12 team playoff, there should be a max per conference of 3-4 teams.
Having more than 4 would ruin the playoff.

If it's left open, SEC will always have too many teams in the top 6 of polls.
It will always be Florida, A&M or Auburn ahead of an Iowa or Northwestern.
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The cap is something that would certainly be discussed…but what is MOST important is objective criteria for getting in.
Need auto bids.
Need a predetermined formula for seeding and at large bids.

Subjectivity sucks.
Even if the formula is bad at least we know the rules going in.
 

Some rumors that Sun Belt is trying to poach Southern Mississippi and MAC is talking to Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee.

CUSA remaining teams could be in fire sale mode ...
 

MplsGopher said:
Some rumors that Sun Belt is trying to poach Southern Mississippi and MAC is talking to Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee.

CUSA remaining teams could be in fire sale mode ...
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CUSA probably goes the way of the WAC
 

noamfromm said:
CUSA probably goes the way of the WAC
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Will be interesting, to me at least.

UMass and UConn football are there, possibly. At least as football-only. Maybe Army, but they might also be enjoying their relative resurgence the last few years under independence.

Some thought that schools like Delaware and even Towson and Villanova could move up. Obviously the latter is not going to leave the Big East, but the former two possibly would be willing to leave the CAA that isn't as strong in basketball as it was. Not that either of them are strong bball programs.
 

MplsGopher said:
Will be interesting, to me at least.

UMass and UConn football are there, possibly. At least as football-only. Maybe Army, but they might also be enjoying their relative resurgence the last few years under independence.

Some thought that schools like Delaware and even Towson and Villanova could move up. Obviously the latter is not going to leave the Big East, but the former two possibly would be willing to leave the CAA that isn't as strong in basketball as it was. Not that either of them are strong bball programs.
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Army said no to the American so I think they're good where they are. It's members probably try to get other conferences as independence is almost a death sentence, a la Idaho, for the football team
 

noamfromm said:
Army said no to the American so I think they're good where they are. It's members probably try to get other conferences as independence is almost a death sentence, a la Idaho, for the football team
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It's all about what you're willing to pay and afford to have an FBS football team. I think Idaho was more political than anything ... people in the state don't want competition for Boise, they want to push that program has high as it can go. I see no reason that Idaho could not have gone on doing what it was doing, but probably a decent contingent of fans happy to return to the Big Sky and playing Montana.

Anyway, UMass and UConn are making it. I doubt either kills their FBS team any time soon. Being closer to more teams out East probably helps.
 

Just a side comment.
Does anyone else think St. Thomas has an opportunity to make a quick climb through the rankings.

I don't know what their stadium plans are, but if there is a football team / market that would gain attention being in the 15-16th best market, I can't be the only one who thinks they might not gain a lot of traction really fast.
 

Face The Facts said:
Just a side comment.
Does anyone else think St. Thomas has an opportunity to make a quick climb through the rankings.

I don't know what their stadium plans are, but if there is a football team / market that would gain attention being in the 15-16th best market, I can't be the only one who thinks they might not gain a lot of traction really fast.
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They need massive investment to make that happen.
 

Face The Facts said:
Just a side comment.
Does anyone else think St. Thomas has an opportunity to make a quick climb through the rankings.

I don't know what their stadium plans are, but if there is a football team / market that would gain attention being in the 15-16th best market, I can't be the only one who thinks they might not gain a lot of traction really fast.
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I mean, yes they have the media market - although they might specialize more to St Paul/Eastern than the whole metro - but really they're very much like Drake.

And Drake has never had scholarships in football. They're in FCS (I-AA) only because DIII kicked them (and Dayton, and a few others) out of the division in 1993. That's what the Pioneer League is, in fact. All those schools.
 

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