Ressue blog: It's all on Kill now -- the wins and the losses

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per Pat:

The Buckeyes’ last football visit to Minneapolis was in 2010, when Tim Brewster had been fired and interim coach Jeff Horton was left to rally the troops. The final was 52-10 for Ohio State.

So, the way I read it, from this gentleman and a half-dozen other communicators on Saturday, we have the need to justify a deserved loss by pointing out how much better shape the program is in than when Kill became the coach in 2010.

I’m declaring that the statute of limitations has expired on references to the program that Kill inherited as an explanation for failures for the 2014 Gophers, as well as into the future.

Here’s the truth: It would have been impossible for the Gophers to hire a head coach who wasn’t going to be an upgrade on Brewster.

Four years in, this is an exact re-run of Glen Mason after he replaced Jim Wacker in December 1996. The Gophers had to get better with Mason, and they did. Yet, I don’t recall the same need with Gopher hardcores to react to every setback by bleating, “You have to admit it’s a different program now than it was with Wacker.’’

Four seasons. Four recruiting classes. This is Jerry Kill’s team. The Gophers’ wins belong strictly to his program, and so do the losses.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/282872571.html

Go Gophers!!
 

I don't hear the excuse of taking over a bad program anymore. The wins and losses are Kill's, but I think most people are saying we're improving with each year. Mason regressed in year four. Kill can win the division and play for a title still. If we regress next year then it's all on Kill. Their are still guys that Kill honored their scholarship offers from Brewster.
 

It's basically impossible to get better every year.

So what's our goal?

To be a .500 conference team or maybe even slightly better over a decade.
 

Not only that, Kill couldn't get the best recruits possible until recently because of the mess he was left with. We have so many younger guys playing because they are better athletes than the many of the seniors Kill recruited at a time when not too many recruits wanted to come here. This year's class is all 3-star recruits…and year by year, that will improve even more.
 



GopherinPhilly said:
Fat Pat on a Pointless Rant. Shocking. (Read Sarcasm)
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No, you are forgetting, he is a newspaperman and he is reporting that this is Kill's team. That is news. I, for one, thought it was still Brewster's team for another year. Oh, sure, it's the equivalent of announcing, "It depends on were they spot the ball."
 

I didn't click the link, but from the portion Bleed posted, this sounds like a rebuttal to an argument that no one's making. I couldn't tell you the last time I heard someone use Brewster as a scapegoat for a setback that befell this team. Early last season maybe, when we started out 0-2 in the Big Ten? Even that's just a guess. I don't remember anyone blaming Brewster for any of the losses this year. A few people questioned Kill after losing convincingly to TCU, before we found out that TCU was a legit too 10 team.

And as far as "anything would be an upgrade over Brewster," he did manage to make it to two bowl games. I'm fairly certain the U is capable of hiring someone worse. Hell, Kevin Wilson and Tim Beckman haven't managed to make one bowl between the two of them and they've been coaching a combined 7 years at Indiana and Illinois respectively, though Illinois actually still has a chance to make a bowl this year.
 

BleedGopher said:
per Pat:
Here’s the truth: It would have been impossible for the Gophers to hire a head coach who wasn’t going to be an upgrade on Brewster.
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This statement is absolutely false. You can argue that it would have been difficult to have hired a coach that was any less able to make the Gophers a winning team in the Big Ten. But there are thousands of coaches that would not have been an "upgrade".
 

Not sure when Reusse wrote this, but if it was somehow in reference to the OSU game, what's his point? Did he think we should be beating OSU by now? If Kill gets us to the Mason-type seasons on a regular basis, with one or two West Division titles the next 6 years, who wouldn't be happy with that? If he does better than that, he will be a genius in my mind. The mountain Kill is climbing is very steep, as it was for Mason, as it would be for Urban Meyer here at Minnesota. Had Kill been lucky enough to find a diamond in the rough at QB the last three years (as he and his staff have done with several other players), and perhaps one or two more wide receivers, we would probably be a shoo-in for the B1G Championship this year. It seems to me he's turned this ship around rather quickly.
 



Unlike most here, I actually like Reusse, and think he's a good writer in most cases. That said, I have no idea what he was saying here.
Wacker and Brewster were not the same situation. Wacker was a good coach who ran a clean program, but was sadly over his head in the Big Ten. Mason had a better foundation to work from. Brewster was a charlatan who had no business being a head coach at any level, and who recruited marginally eligible players and couldn't keep them in line. That Kill has the team back to Mason's level as quickly as he has is remarkable really. If not for the Illinois loss, which stings, the Gophers losses are to the number 5 and number 8 teams in the country. We're not a top ten program - there's no shame in those two losses.
 

In all fairness to Brewster... he did take us to 2 Bowl Games. I would have to say he had the most frustrating head coach tenure in my lifetime as a Gophers fan but it could've been MUCH worse. As bad as Brewster was, he still won games... so NO, not any coach after him was going to be an upgrade...
 

I only read what's posted here since I haven't clicked on the sTrib since the Souhan article. But, from what I've read from Ressue and comments from long-time readers of his stuff, this seems to align with the majority of the print from the sTrib: presenting the most negative possible views about Gopher football. A friend sent me a text Saturday night expressing surprise at comments at the bottom of a sTrib game story and I asked him not to click the site anymore. I guess I want to more openly and aggressively campaign against what I view as "the enemy."
 

This may seem like a "throw away" blog post by Reusse, but it's a set up for a future piece. He is playing the odds, and banking on the Gophers losing their final two games. At which point he can write another article about how this Gopher team only went 7-5 and are not that impressive. His blog post is doing nothing but planting the seed. If Kill and Gophers can pull of one, or two, monumental upsets we'll probably get an article about the Vikings or some Ping-Pong player from SW Minnesota that he has on file.
 



killme said:
I only read what's posted here since I haven't clicked on the sTrib since the Souhan article. But, from what I've read from Ressue and comments from long-time readers of his stuff, this seems to align with the majority of the print from the sTrib: presenting the most negative possible views about Gopher football. A friend sent me a text Saturday night expressing surprise at comments at the bottom of a sTrib game story and I asked him not to click the site anymore. I guess I want to more openly and aggressively campaign against what I view as "the enemy."
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+1 Don't click the Strib!
 

He's getting communications from some hard core Gopher "Fans" who overreact to any possible critique of Kill or the team with "But they're still way better than what they were under Brewster!"

People that don't believe that's happening haven't read the posts here after any Gopher loss, lousy effort in the passing game etc. Put as many qualifiers in your as you want i.e. team overall is playing well, they had a chance, Kill is doing a good job etc. and they'll still be a lot of posts screaming about it how unfair it is to say it in the first place.

Though Pat is dead wrong about one thing. Even when Mason's teams got hammered or gave-up a big lead in the 4th, there were plenty of people on here telling everybody to "shut-up, because you don't realize how bad things were before Glen got here!"

Wacker, God bless him, was very, very lucky to have left coaching before e-mails, online comments sections and Twitter.

"So, the way I read it, from this gentleman and a half-dozen other communicators on Saturday, we have the need to justify a deserved loss by pointing out how much better shape the program is in than when Kill became the coach in 2010.I’m declaring that the statute of limitations has expired on references to the program that Kill inherited as an explanation for failures for the 2014 Gophers, as well as into the future.

Here’s the truth: It would have been impossible for the Gophers to hire a head coach who wasn’t going to be an upgrade on Brewster.

Four years in, this is an exact re-run of Glen Mason after he replaced Jim Wacker in December 1996. The Gophers had to get better with Mason, and they did. Yet, I don’t recall the same need with Gopher hardcores to react to every setback by bleating, “You have to admit it’s a different program now than it was with Wacker.’’

Four seasons. Four recruiting classes. This is Jerry Kill’s team. The Gophers’ wins belong strictly to his program, and so do the losses."
 

I also disagree that this a "re-run" of the Mason years. In my opinion, Mason had ONE team that was stronger than what we have seen the last two seasons. I think the program is in better shape now, than at any point in the Mason regime (with the exception of the 2003 version, which Mason ultimately Masoned).
 

GopherHomer said:
I also disagree that this a "re-run" of the Mason years. In my opinion, Mason had ONE team that was stronger than what we have seen the last two seasons. I think the program is in better shape now, than at any point in the Mason regime (with the exception of the 2003 version, which Mason ultimately Masoned).
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The column referred to Kill's first four years versus Mason's first four years.
 

Kill is quickly coming up on the time where the team is entirely his, but let's not forget, there are five classes to think about (redshirt seniors), and Kill's first year he was hired without a full cycle to build relationships and sign recruits. But what is significant here is what I think was the disappointing thing with both Brewster and Tubby. Both of those coaches had some good success and unexpected improvement within their first couple years (Tubby had us in the tournament in years two and three, Brewster took us from 1-11 to back to back bowl games in years two and three). This led everyone to say "hey, if these guys can do that well, with the old guy's recruits recruited for a different system, and the partial classes they have managed to cobble together, and some JUCO transfers, then imagine what happens once they get a full team of full recruiting classes recruited for their system". The problem was, that never materialized, and the teams were not appreciably better as they got more of their guys and less of the old guy's guys in the system. Hopefully things go differently for Kill.

Obviously, we are excited at where the team is after pulling it out of Brewster's dumpster fire. However, soon Kill will have five full classes of Kill guys recruited to play Kill football. At that time, Mason levels won't be considered successful anymore. And let's not forget, we fired Mason for Mason levels.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Kill is quickly coming up on the time where the team is entirely his, but let's not forget, there are five classes to think about (redshirt seniors), and Kill's first year he was hired without a full cycle to build relationships and sign recruits. But what is significant here is what I think was the disappointing thing with both Brewster and Tubby. Both of those coaches had some good success and unexpected improvement within their first couple years (Tubby had us in the tournament in years two and three, Brewster took us from 1-11 to back to back bowl games in years two and three). This led everyone to say "hey, if these guys can do that well, with the old guy's recruits recruited for a different system, and the partial classes they have managed to cobble together, and some JUCO transfers, then imagine what happens once they get a full team of full recruiting classes recruited for their system". The problem was, that never materialized, and the teams were not appreciably better as they got more of their guys and less of the old guy's guys in the system. Hopefully things go differently for Kill.

Obviously, we are excited at where the team is after pulling it out of Brewster's dumpster fire. However, soon Kill will have five full classes of Kill guys recruited to play Kill football. At that time, Mason levels won't be considered successful anymore. And let's not forget, we fired Mason for Mason levels.
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You're one of the guys who e-mailed him right? :D
 




killme said:
How exactly do you know about the emails he's gotten?
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From what Reusse printed. Turns out I can read. You should try it sometime. Maybe next time you're in town. Oh, yeah, you're not really a Gopher fan are you?

"So, the way I read it, from this gentleman and a half-dozen other communicators on Saturday, we have the need to justify a deserved loss by pointing out how much better shape the program is in than when Kill became the coach in 2010.I’m declaring that the statute of limitations has expired on references to the program that Kill inherited as an explanation for failures for the 2014 Gophers, as well as into the future."
 

This is a classic maneuver by many media members. Dan Barreiro draws from this well often. They create an imaginary ridiculous argument that the "average rube" would make and then use it as a reason why the local team/coach/player/fan is a joke. The problem is, the average rube isn't arguing this and rarely can they ever provide the original material for their take. It's just part of a media bit.
 


I agree with Pat in that it's useless to make comparisons to the Brewster regime. That was a trainwreck that any competent coach could improve on. Comparing Kill's success with Mason's is more interesting. If you look at Big Ten wins through the first four years these coaches were here you'll see that Kill and Mason are actually tied with 12 wins. Thus, one more win is needed to make the claim that Kill has improved the Gophers' performance in conference play over what Mason did when he started here.
 

GoForGold said:
I agree with Pat in that it's useless to make comparisons to the Brewster regime. That was a trainwreck that any competent coach could improve on. Comparing Kill's success with Mason's is more interesting. If you look at Big Ten wins through the first four years these coaches were here you'll see that Kill and Mason are actually tied with 12 wins. Thus, one more win is needed to make the claim that Kill has improved the Gophers' performance in conference play over what Mason did when he started here.
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Comparing Kill to Mason at this point is comparable. Brewster was under a completely different style and direction. He recruited first and coached second. Kill has a chance to put this team/program over the hump in the next two weeks.
 

Iceland12 said:
From what Reusse printed. Turns out I can read. You should try it sometime. Maybe next time you're in town. Oh, yeah, you're not really a Gopher fan are you?
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Thanks for the clarification. It was just an innocent question. I don't click on the sTrib. If I was "in town" I wouldn't be buying the paper either. The only things I read from that organization are what's posted on here. Your hostility towards me always surprises me. Seems like I'm a villain to you because I'm not a Minnesota native and just a JK fan. That's OK. Based on mindset of most of your posts, I'm kinda glad you don't like me.
 

scools12 said:
might want to read post #13 where the loss to Ohio St was clearly pinned on someone.

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...g-strides-but-QB-position-remains-a-big-issue
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It's unfair of CoMN to put the loss on Brewster, but the rest of his post was great stuff and an extremely valid opinion. Were we a couple players away from beating OSU with all their 5-star players? I think it was more about us just not having a great game one week after playing our best game under JK.
 

GopherHomer said:
This may seem like a "throw away" blog post by Reusse, but it's a set up for a future piece. He is playing the odds, and banking on the Gophers losing their final two games. At which point he can write another article about how this Gopher team only went 7-5 and are not that impressive. His blog post is doing nothing but planting the seed. If Kill and Gophers can pull of one, or two, monumental upsets we'll probably get an article about the Vikings or some Ping-Pong player from SW Minnesota that he has on file.
Click to expand...

Don't disrespect the Fulda ping pong team. :rolleyes:
 

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