Myron Takes Shot at Gophers

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Moses87 said:
I think its a fair assessment based on the "eye test."
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In other words, the subjective and biased assessment of someone who knows little-to-nothing about basketball (i.e., you).

Moses87 said:
The Gophers offense is very poor. Probably 250 better offenses in half court situations.
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Link?

Moses87 said:
We have no shot without transition baskets, broken plays and offensive rebounding.
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So those are the only ways we've scored this year? Interesting.

Moses87 said:
Tubby's teams have always stagnated or regressed in February.
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So all those Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four and national championship teams "stagnated or regressed in February"? What are you saying? That he would have a fistful of national championships if those teams weren't getting poorer as the year progressed?

Moses87 said:
I saw no evidence of improvement in Iowa game.
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How do you know? We've only played Iowa once this year. What is your baseline for comparison?

Moses87 said:
We barely beat a very mediocre team.
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According to ESPN, #82 in RPI as of right now, out of 346 teams. In other words, comfortably in the top quartile. Yes, so very mediocre.
 

Those quotes by Moses should be enough to get him banned. He never offers any evidence to back up his bashing, it's pretty clear he's just trolling.
 

Gopher07 said:
We're not on the same level as Michigan and Indiana, but no B1G teams are.

MSU beat a struggling Illinois team in East Lansing by five last week. They squeaked out wins in Madison, and at home against Ohio State, by 2 and 3 points, respectively.

Ohio State got drilled on the road by that same poor Illinois team. Iowa had it down to a 4-point game with 1:30 to go in Columbus.

Wisconsin, well, they already lost to that mediocre Iowa team. Close wins against Penn State and Nebraska - the worst teams in the conference - do not inspire confidence.

My point being, that every team has poor marks if you're looking for them. Are we playing well as of late? No. But we're not in a considerably worse position than most other teams not named Michigan or Indiana at this point.
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We'll have just enough bone-head turnovers, infuriating misses, blown 1 and 1's and MSU will hit just enough shots to eke out a win. They are the type of team that can turn it on and find an extra gear when they need it.

Dawson is a poor man's Mbakwe, only more skilled and agile. Payne has added 3 point shooting to his game. Nix is big and often clumsey but he is an effective player in spurts. Appling can take over a game when needed as he did vs the Illini down the stretch. They won't need Trice and I don't expect him to play. Harris is playing and will do some nice things. Izzo will play his 3 bigs because he knows that forces Tubby to play EE extended minutes. That will be interesting to see. We haven't played much with EE, Rodney and Mbakwe on the court at the same time. I expect to see EE get a season high for minutes in Conf Play.
 

dpodoll68 said:
In other words, the subjective and biased assessment of someone who knows little-to-nothing about basketball (i.e., you).
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I'm going to agree with you for the second time in a week dpod. I cannot stand the use of the "eye-test". To me, two things matter: how many wins and losses do we have and how tough was our schedule? That is why I like the RPI so much, it only registers wins and losses (by you, your opponents, and your opponents' opponents), and not margin of victory, flow of offense, or whatever else Moses thinks we should be ranking based off of.
 

Moses87 said:
I think its a fair assessment based on the "eye test."

The Gophers offense is very poor. Probably 250 better offenses in half court situations. We have no shot without transition baskets, broken plays and offensive rebounding. Defensively we are very sound but we do have a problem that we may go for too many blocks and that leaves us vulnerable to offensive rebounding by our opponents.

The other thing is that we haven't really improved at all since the start of Conference Play, whereas dozens of teams like Kentucky, UNC, Wisconsin(with Traevon Jax), Iowa (3 Freshmen), NW(great coaching), Florida St, Memphis, UCLA, Kansas State, Pitt and many, many others. Those who stagnate get passed up in February. Tubby's teams have always stagnated or regressed in February. Not sure this year will be any different. I saw no evidence of improvement in Iowa game. Just a great individual effort by Austin Hollins to save the day. Rodney and Trev both contributed almost nothing in the half court offense. Coleman had his 5 turnovers and was very spotty. Andre H had his worst shooting game since NW.

We barely beat a very mediocre team. All is not well, people. This team will get drilled by 22 if we play the same vs MSU.
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I still don't know how one can bash Tubby and simultaneously praise Carmody who has achieved less than Tubby has in about twice the amount of time. If he were such a great basketball mind, one would think he might have overachieved even ONE season and made the tournament or had a winning Big Ten record. Even Monson managed that. He has one .500 conference finish, which is also his only finish above 7th in 12 seasons, and even then he was below .500 for the season with a 14-15 record.

As I recall you also are one of those who complains about Dre because he isn't a "true point guard." So of course when he gets 8 assists and 1 turnover, you bash his shooting, despite the fact that he got 15 points, more than his season average.
 


Cayman said:
As I recall you also are one of those who complains about Dre because he isn't a "true point guard." So of course when he gets 8 assists and 1 turnover, you bash his shooting, despite the fact that he got 15 points, more than his season average.
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Just yesterday he still argued that he isn't a "true point guard", and I called him on it. I guess it's common for SGs to rack up 8 assists and 1 turnover. He must need to get at least 16 assists a game if he wants to be a "true point guard".
 

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Dre however is the scoring combo guard that the one spot in the NBA is turning more and more into. Aren't too many pure points left in the association
 

The Eye Test

Admittedly, I'm a RPI guy (I understand it has flaws), but I'm with you on the "eye test." We'll hear those two words a ton in the months of February and March, especially from the Mother Ship. The simple translation of "eye test" is, "That team looks really good, but their resume really sucks."

In other words, they look like a tournament team, but haven't done much vs. the good opponents on their schedule to be deserving of an at-large bid. Have never understood certain TV college hoops personalities' infatuation with saying a team who passes the eye test should get a bid over a team who, um, actually has proven it on the court with significant wins.

I'll give an example. VCU (currently #49 in the RPI) unquestionably would pass the eye test. The Rams are fun to watch and certainly "look like" a tournament team. I've said here they're a team I'm not sure the Gophers would match up well against.

That said, take a close look at VCU's resume. Their best wins are Belmont and Alabama, both at home, and a neutral-siter vs. Memphis. They lost to both Duke and Missouri -- no shame there -- but most damaging are home losses to Wichita State and LaSalle, two teams who at this point appear headed for the NCAA Tournament. Those are the kind of games a bubble team can't lose at home.

I'd guess by the end of the season VCU will be solidly in the Field of 68, but right now it seems like they're one of those teams all the pundits love despite the fact their resume says bubble.
 



MadtownGopher said:
Just yesterday he still argued that he isn't a "true point guard", and I called him on it. I guess it's common for SGs to rack up 8 assists and 1 turnover. He must need to get at least 16 assists a game if he wants to be a "true point guard".
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FWIW

The other day on espn1500 Mike Ellis, Gophers Senior Associate Athletic Director in charge of basketball, said 'Andre Hollins is not a true point guard , he is a more of a combo guard playing point guard'.
 

march madness said:
I get what your saying Moses but I disagree that Iowa is a mediocre team. If this was an average big ten year, instead of a stacked big ten, i think this Iowa team could finish in the top 5 or 6. May their 7th man is their only senior. Iowa could be a top 5 team next year, and Purdue is young and improving as well. I really hope we can get a juco pf or a suprise freshmen pf for next year.
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That makes one of us.
 

The Gophers didn't "escape Sunday's win". They won. Crappy grammar for a professional writer.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Just yesterday he still argued that he isn't a "true point guard", and I called him on it. I guess it's common for SGs to rack up 8 assists and 1 turnover. He must need to get at least 16 assists a game if he wants to be a "true point guard".
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Honestly, I agree with him. Dre Hollins is not a pure point. He doesn't have that natural knack for just setting guys up for easy buckets. BUT, in the college game, I've said this plenty of times, you don't need a pure point guard to have success. You just need good guards, period. Would it be BETTER to have a good pure PG? Of course, but it's not essential IMO. Hollins is plenty good enough of a lead guard for this team to go deep in the tourney.

One flaw we have in regards to guard play is the lack of ability to get the ball to Trev in the post. That's a big advantage that is not being utilized nearly enough, and that's on the guards not getting it in there. That's where having a pure point who's a good post feeder would be nice.
 



mayogo4 said:
The Gophers didn't "escape Sunday's win". They won. Crappy grammar for a professional writer.
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I'm stealing it from someone else in a different thread (can't remember who so that I can properly credit them), but "escaped with a win" is a fancier way of saying "won". Likewise, "should have lost" (another classic Moron quote from that article) is another synonym for "won". There is no need to apologize for winning ugly. Just win the damn game, by any legal means necessary.
 


The top teams in the B1G are very good this year, not sure that can be said about the middle teams, Wisconsin is probably down from what they usually are, Purdue is down, the Gophers seem to be about par so far, Iowa may be better than they have been but I don't think they are as good as they have traditionally been, Illinios seems to be down like they have been for the last coupe of years, Northwestern is about how they usually are.

If the Gophers lose to the top teams and go 500 against the mid tier teams I can't see how they are anything but mediocre, I had higher expectations for what should be an up year.

A couple of games can change the perception of the season, another win against Mich State could do that, but because of the strength of the B1G that is the way it always is, you have to win a couple of those games and the Gophers have not been doing that the last couple of years.. I hope it changes with a win at Mich State and continues for the remainder of the season but after many many years of dissapointment I'm not holding my breath.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm stealing it from someone else in a different thread (can't remember who so that I can properly credit them), but "escaped with a win" is a fancier way of saying "won". Likewise, "should have lost" (another classic Moron quote from that article) is another synonym for "won". There is no need to apologize for winning ugly. Just win the damn game, by any legal means necessary.
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I believe that was bleedsmaroonandgold who said that.

Also I see what you did there. :)
 


May I suggest a sticky thread somewhere on the board with the "rules of the forum"?

Or if there is, can someone point me to it?
 


And Moses did none of that.

Seriously. Is this the kind of policing that's on this board? Have a negative attitude and you're banned?

Boooooo.
 

brucekaupa said:
And Moses did none of that.

Seriously. Is this the kind of policing that's on this board? Have a negative attitude and you're banned?

Boooooo.
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Please by all means, go post some where else if you are upset about Moses' ban. Please. Go.
 

brucekaupa said:
And Moses did none of that.

Seriously. Is this the kind of policing that's on this board? Have a negative attitude and you're banned?

Boooooo.
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There are plenty of people who are constantly negative on here that won't ever get banned. He was an obvious troll.
 

Unless there was a post of Moses87's that was deleted, I thought he made a lot of valid points in this thread (and some not so valid, but that's par for the course for almost every poster).

As for Myron's point, I agree and disagree. I think it's accurate to say the Gophers are not playing like a top 25 team. The last time the Gophers looked like a team worthy of their current ranking at 18 was the second half of the Indiana game...that's a long time ago now. However, the top 25 isn't a snapshot of the past week, or even the past month. The Gophers resume for the season to date is worthy of their current ranking.

I think it's more than fair to wonder if we've seen the best of this team already and Myron is probably well aware of other recent Gopher teams that had impressive wins in November/December only to fall apart down the stretch.
 

EG#9 said:
Unless there was a post of Moses87's that was deleted, I thought he made a lot of valid points in this thread (and some not so valid, but that's par for the course for almost every poster).

As for Myron's point, I agree and disagree. I think it's accurate to say the Gophers are not playing like a top 25 team. The last time the Gophers looked like a team worthy of their current ranking at 18 was the second half of the Indiana game...that's a long time ago now. However, the top 25 isn't a snapshot of the past week, or even the past month. The Gophers resume for the season to date is worthy of their current ranking.

I think it's more than fair to wonder if we've seen the best of this team already and Myron is probably well aware of other recent Gopher teams that had impressive wins in November/December only to fall apart down the stretch.
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I think it was just his relentless arguing, with no basis except to build animosity for attention, kind of like a couple of others who are doing the same.
 

Dr.Don said:
I think it was just his relentless arguing, with no basis except to build animosity for attention, kind of like a couple of others who are doing the same.
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Exactly why I was enthused to see him banned. I've been reading gopherhole for the past 3 or 4 years regularly, in fact it has become my most frequented website, but I rarely post (mostly because I spend enough time talking gopher hoops with my friends). I've cringed every time I've seen a post from Moses over the past month because it is the exact same thing. Simply fire Tubby, this team is terrible, we are going to lose every game we play because we are out-coached and if we somehow manage to win it was dumb luck. His act was far beyond tired and from and outsiders perspective, it was clear to me that the posters who regularly contribute to this board were getting tired of it as well. He was not in the discussions until the Gophers went on their 4-game slide and since has been dominating every discussion with the same consistent negative dribble. He was the definition of a troll.
 

Moses was (is) an idiot but he doesn't deserve to get banned. I think all banning deserve an explanation post from the admins. I don't think he is a troll at all. I don't donate anymore because of "mob" banning (flame away but note I have donated in the past).

FWIW, negative gets people banned. Pro gopher fans that bully and belittle and annoy are tolerated.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Moses was (is) an idiot but he doesn't deserve to get banned. I think all banning deserve an explanation post from the admins. I don't think he is a troll at all. I don't donate anymore because of "mob" banning (flame away but note I have donated in the past).
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agreed.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Moses was (is) an idiot but he doesn't deserve to get banned. I think all banning deserve an explanation post from the admins. I don't think he is a troll at all. I don't donate anymore because of "mob" banning (flame away but note I have donated in the past).

FWIW, negative gets people banned. Pro gopher fans that bully and belittle and annoy are tolerated.
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Trust me, Winni, Admin sends a PM to the person banned as to why they were banned. Why they were banned is none of our business.

In addition, I donate regularly with a monthly donation, and that gives me NO MORE rights than anyone else. So if you decide to stop donating, then stop commenting. Two way street.
 

Dr.Don said:
Trust me, Winni, Admin sends a PM to the person banned as to why they were banned. Why they were banned is none of our business.

In addition, I donate regularly with a monthly donation, and that gives me NO MORE rights than anyone else. So if you decide to stop donating, then stop commenting. Two way street.
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Interesting.
 

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