Doogie: Embarrassment at Big House makes it time to bench veterans

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Not so fast Doogie.

For instance, if Wynn and Bunders are the best we have and their back ups aren't pushing them, Coach Kill has to keep them in there. We need players who are game ready, especially on the OL.

The D has been rotating a lot of guys so I assume that will continue. Who right now is better than Tinsley? Probably no one.

Gradually work in the young guys and see how they hold up. If they do fine, by years end we could see a lot of newbies in the starting line-up.
 

The guys who are out there competing and showing some effort should be out there regardless of class. Too many guys going through the motions yesterday.
 

The Michigan curse goes back a lot further - to 1943 or so. Bierman dominated Michigan from 1932 on, but Michigan has dominated since '43, Gopher victories being few and far between. Now they are in our division, which is ridiculous. Wisconsin should join the "West," with Illinois and Northwestern, and Michigan and Michigan State should join the "East," where they belong.
 

I think you are confusing east & west with lenders & liars.
 


I was reading that Coach Kill has been forced to use several true freshman this year that he would have liked to red shirt. Considering how pathetic we appear to be (58-0) why would we play true freshman rather than red shirt them. Might it not be in both the teams and the players best interest to let them mature a year before we play them? I doubt the Gophers would have done much worse if we had some of Brewster's Srs. and Jrs. in there against Michigan. Or am I missing something?
 

Props to Doogie for having a reasonable take on the QB situation. Which is more than most of the twin cities media who already said gray should never play QB again.
 

This is not the Vikings tanking for the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes. College ball is start your best and try and win every Saturday, unlike the NFL.
 

sec105 said:
I was reading that Coach Kill has been forced to use several true freshman this year that he would have liked to red shirt. Considering how pathetic we appear to be (58-0) why would we play true freshman rather than red shirt them. Might it not be in both the teams and the players best interest to let them mature a year before we play them? I doubt the Gophers would have done much worse if we had some of Brewster's Srs. and Jrs. in there against Michigan. Or am I missing something?
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I could be wrong, but I think MV did an analysis of this and I think it has to do with balancing out the classes and the number of scholarships we have available each year. I could be wrong, though...
 



If I am a freshman who has yet to play and the staff asked me to burn my redshirt now, I'd give them a big FU.
 

Rosemountian said:
If I am a freshman who has yet to play and the staff asked me to burn my redshirt now, I'd give them a big FU.
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You were never a D1 football player, were you? Any kid worth his salt is itching to get in the game because he is cocky enough to think he can do it better and wants a chance to prove himself.

If our freshmen are like you, the team has no future.
 

The 12th Man said:
You were never a D1 football player, were you? Any kid worth his salt is itching to get in the game because he is cocky enough to think he can do it better and wants a chance to prove himself.

If our freshmen are like you, the team has no future.
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Any kid with a brain would figure out that sitting out 1/2 of the season in redshirt mode only to play part time the last 1/2 season is a waste of his year of eligibility. Players are here for the program, they also have to advocate for themselves. Burning a redshirt now costs them 5 games of the career and a year of free tuition.

Any freshman worth anything would figure out by week 5 that sitting out the entire year and still getting 4 years to play after another offseason of hard work is better than playing spot minutes for a bad team for half of a season.
Did you ever play college football? Do you have any idea how eligibility works? Do you have any idea how big of a jump it is from high school to college? Do you know how big of a deal it is to burn a redshirt to play less than 200 plays in a season that won't finiish with more than 4 wins?
I don't want idiots on the team. Idiots can go ahead and burn their redshirts after midseason. This is the last week I'd even consider burning my redshirt. If the coaching staff gets pissed they can (and should) transfer.

The kids are here for the gophers, they are also here for themselves. In my opinion even asking a kid to burn his redshirt after half the season is over is selfish by any coach.
 




Rosemountain, I am starting to disagree with you more and more. Seriously, why would a player not want to get on the field. They don't want to sit there and watch. They want to PLAY! Do you think players actually WANT to redshirt?
 

Rosemountian said:
If I am a freshman who has yet to play and the staff asked me to burn my redshirt now, I'd give them a big FU.
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Give them a big FU, and they give you a boot right off the team. So not only are you not playing that season, but you wont be playing any season just because you were being selfish and didn't want to burn your redshirt. If you were a decent student, you would be done if 4 years anyhow(by graduating), so might as well play when you are asked.
 

popeyoung5 said:
This is not the Vikings tanking for the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes. College ball is start your best and try and win every Saturday, unlike the NFL.
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Not at the expense of changing the culture or cutting corners. Kill says time and time again that he will not take any shortcuts.
 

zambam said:
Rosemountain, I am starting to disagree with you more and more. Seriously, why would a player not want to get on the field. They don't want to sit there and watch. They want to PLAY! Do you think players actually WANT to redshirt?
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I am thinking of 5 players in high school and one guy I coached with my most recent year of coaching.

4 of them redshirted.
1 of them played as a freshman and said he wished he had redshirted.
The coach burned his redshirt after 7 games and says he regrets it to this day.


I did not redshirt. But I did start so I had fun with it. I was playing lower level college ball so it's very different.
 

In IT for the ∫e ͯ;441515 said:
Give them a big FU, and they give you a boot right off the team. So not only are you not playing that season, but you wont be playing any season just because you were being selfish and didn't want to burn your redshirt. If you were a decent student, you would be done if 4 years anyhow(by graduating), so might as well play when you are asked.
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So you are claiming you lose nothing at all if instead of being a starter as a 5th year senior getting grad school credit you play special teams and limited reps on one side of the ball for 6 games?


That's definitely not losing anything.

You are naive if you don't think there are players around the country who are asked if they'd like to play and burn their redshirts late in the year every year. Some accept, some don't.
 

The 12th Man said:
Oh, man. You didn't even play in high school, did you?
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Not that it should matter but yes I did. Started as a junior, had some injury problems and didn't get fully healthy until midway through senior year. Started as a freshman in
college (d3) and sophomore in college. Called it quits when I had more serious injury problems midway through sophomore year.
 

They've only played ONE Big Ten game and you think they should call it a year?

Geez, these kids want to play.
 

Rosemountian said:
So you are claiming you lose nothing at all if instead of being a starter as a 5th year senior getting grad school credit you play special teams and limited reps on one side of the ball for 6 games?


That's definitely not losing anything.

You are naive if you don't think there are players around the country who are asked if they'd like to play and burn their redshirts late in the year every year. Some accept, some don't.
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There is a big difference in being asked to burn a redshirt and declining and tell the coach FU for even thinking about wanting them to burn it. If you are going to have the attitude to give your coach an FU, I doubt you care enough about grad school credits. So again, you tell the coach FU you are losing a lot more than you would be gaining.
 

Playing as a true freshman is also another stop towards the NFL - for those players who think that's where they're headed anyway.

Fine, play em!


I was against playing true freshmen until last season when NDSU played a good number of them. Maybe things have changed, but I never remembered true freshmen being physically ready to play at the DI level. Yet that's exactly the case for some of them.

If they can help the team now - play them now. Holding them on the bench does nothing.
 

It all depends upon the situation for me....

For instance, if Wynn and Bunders are clearly the best OL that we have, we need to keep playing them. If you put in inferior talent around young guys like Shortell, Cobb, Kirkwood, Moulton, Jones, etc....it will hinder their development. If it's close, yeah, I say play the younger guys. However, if it's not close (and only Kill would know), it would do more damage to their development and the development of the younger guys around them to play them.

I am all for getting the younger guys in when we can.


As for the Rosemountain debate, I see what he is saying. But of all the Division 1 athletes that i've know, i've never met one of them who wanted to RS while they were freshmen. That said, almost all of them who did RS, were glad that they did.

It's one of those things where you almost don't trust a kid who doesn't want to play NOW. That sort of foresight and maturity seems peculiar for an 18 yr old football player, especially in contrast to what you hope is an intense competitive nature.
 

BisonGopher said:
Playing as a true freshman is also another stop towards the NFL - for those players who think that's where they're headed anyway.

Fine, play em!


I was against playing true freshmen until last season when NDSU played a good number of them. Maybe things have changed, but I never remembered true freshmen being physically ready to play at the DI level. Yet that's exactly the case for some of them.

If they can help the team now - play them now. Holding them on the bench does nothing.
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For the most part Bison, I think the kids who can contribute already have. I don't think that has ever really changed
 

Rosemountian said:
Any kid with a brain would figure out that sitting out 1/2 of the season in redshirt mode only to play part time the last 1/2 season is a waste of his year of eligibility. Players are here for the program, they also have to advocate for themselves. Burning a redshirt now costs them 5 games of the career and a year of free tuition.

Any freshman worth anything would figure out by week 5 that sitting out the entire year and still getting 4 years to play after another offseason of hard work is better than playing spot minutes for a bad team for half of a season.
Did you ever play college football? Do you have any idea how eligibility works? Do you have any idea how big of a jump it is from high school to college? Do you know how big of a deal it is to burn a redshirt to play less than 200 plays in a season that won't finiish with more than 4 wins?
I don't want idiots on the team. Idiots can go ahead and burn their redshirts after midseason. This is the last week I'd even consider burning my redshirt. If the coaching staff gets pissed they can (and should) transfer.

The kids are here for the gophers, they are also here for themselves. In my opinion even asking a kid to burn his redshirt after half the season is over is selfish by any coach.
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Rosemountain,

You are so right and anyone who would disagree is so wrong it isn't even worth debating. Besides the fact said player would be giving up potentially a FULL season as a 23 year old veteran, he would also be giving up tens of thousands in FREE education. Why? So he could have the privillage of gettiing his ass handed to him.

Summary:
Play now on a horrible team in the meat of the schedule against the toughest competition and get destroyed by future NFL'ers or keep your redshirt, get bigger, stronger and play in 2015 when the team is supposedly better and turned around.....all while taking a small class load and completing your master degree.

Yeah... tough choice.
 

Rosemountian said:
So you are claiming you lose nothing at all if instead of being a starter as a 5th year senior getting grad school credit you play special teams and limited reps on one side of the ball for 6 games?


That's definitely not losing anything.

You are naive if you don't think there are players around the country who are asked if they'd like to play and burn their redshirts late in the year every year. Some accept, some don't.
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Rosemounain...at this point it wont be about choice for the player or coach...it will be burnt out of necessity. We simply don't have enough depth at some positions and if an injury occurs...we have to burn the redshirt. The player doesn't have a choice, except quit as you suggested you would. They are on scholarship and they play if sent in...period. Further, to play at the DI level...you want to play, you love to play, or you wont survive. I suspect we have more than a few on this team that wont survive as Kill has said several times already. It is a level of commitment that surpasses logical thought.

I never played DI football, but I have several family members that played DI (1 FB national championship at Colorado) and two that played in the NFL (6 & 3 Years), and I can say that being around them during this time was amazing. They commitment, the work, constantly chasing the dream...just incredible. So, I get your point, but I can say no kid that is committed to the dream would say FU to his coach or pass up a chance to compete against the big ten if given the opportunity. So, I disagree with your logic and assessment of how a kid would react...unless that kid wasn't really committed.
 

I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong when you say nobody would turn down the opportunity to okay. Because I know those who have. And you can say they had no desire.....and that would just confirm that you are an ignorant hack.
 

I think it's pretty clear Rosemountain has never played football...not even Madden...
 

Rosemountian said:
I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong when you say nobody would turn down the opportunity to okay. Because I know those who have. And you can say they had no desire.....and that would just confirm that you are an ignorant hack.
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Having actually played at the D1 level, I can tell you that nobody on my team would have even considered not playing. That is why you are there, and that mentality is why we went to bowl games.
 

There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time.

-Malcolm X
 

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