How are the top 2008 JUCOs doing?

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Mikie S

Mikie S

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Here's Rival's list of last years Top-10 junior college seniors and how they're doing this year.

1. Mario Little Kansas 12.9 min / 4.9 pts / 3.1 reb / 1.0 ast
2. Daniel Payne Arkansas Failed to qualify
3. Tyrone Appleton Kansas 2.1 min / 0.8 pts / 0.3 reb / 0.4 ast
4. Devron Bostick Minnesota 10.0 min / 3.6 pts / 1.4 reb. 0.8 ast
5. Qa'rraan Calhoun Houston 30.0 min / 10.5 pts / 5.4 reb / 1.2 ast
6. Tyree Evans Kent State 28.4 min / 12.3 pts / 2.2 reb / 0.5 ast
7. Bobby Maze Tennessee 25.7 min / 8.6 pts / 2..4 reb / 3.2 ast
8. Jermaine Dixon Pittsburgh 24.3 min / 9.0 pts / 2.3 reb / 2.1 ast
9. Tay Waller Auburn 29.4 min / 12.8 pts / 2.8 reb / 1.6 ast
10. Juan Pattillo Oklahoma 15.1 min / 7.0 pts / 3.3 reb / 0.4 ast

Several solid players, but overall not impressive if you compare them to top-25 freshman lists.
 

Do the same thing with the top 10 freshmen list. It would be interesting.
 

Mikie S said:
Here's Rival's list of last years Top-10 junior college seniors and how they're doing this year.

1. Mario Little Kansas 12.9 min / 4.9 pts / 3.1 reb / 1.0 ast
2. Daniel Payne Arkansas Failed to qualify
3. Tyrone Appleton Kansas 2.1 min / 0.8 pts / 0.3 reb / 0.4 ast
4. Devron Bostick Minnesota 10.0 min / 3.6 pts / 1.4 reb. 0.8 ast
5. Qa'rraan Calhoun Houston 30.0 min / 10.5 pts / 5.4 reb / 1.2 ast
6. Tyree Evans Kent State 28.4 min / 12.3 pts / 2.2 reb / 0.5 ast
7. Bobby Maze Tennessee 25.7 min / 8.6 pts / 2..4 reb / 3.2 ast
8. Jermaine Dixon Pittsburgh 24.3 min / 9.0 pts / 2.3 reb / 2.1 ast
9. Tay Waller Auburn 29.4 min / 12.8 pts / 2.8 reb / 1.6 ast
10. Juan Pattillo Oklahoma 15.1 min / 7.0 pts / 3.3 reb / 0.4 ast

Several solid players, but overall not impressive if you compare them to top-25 freshman lists.
Click to expand...

Houston struck gold with their JUCOs. In addition to Calhoun, look at the season that Aubrey Coleman had.
 

Rivals Top 10 Freshman:

1 - BJ Mullens, Ohio State - 20.8 min/9.3 pts/4.8 reb
2 - Jrue Holliday, UCLA - 26.6 min/9.0 pts
3 - Demar DeRozen, USC - 33.6 min/12.5 pts/5.5 reb
4 - Brandon Jennings, Italy Pro Team - 18.2 min/6.5 pts
5 - Scotty Hopson, Tennessee - 23.0 min/9.6 pts
6 - Tyreke Evans, Memphis - 28.2 min/16.8 pts/5.3 reb
7 - Al-Faourn-Aminu, Wake Forest - 28.7 min/12.6 pts/5.3 reb
8 - Greg Monroe, Georgetown - 30.8 min/12.9 pts/6.7 reb
9 - Samardo Samuels, Louisville - 24.6 min/12.1 pts/4.8 reb
10 - Willie Warren, Oklahoma - 30.7 min/15.1 pts

Highest scoring average - Tyreke Evans, Memphis - 16.8 pts
Highest minutes - Demar DeRozen, USC - 33.6 min
Highest rebounding average - Greg Monroe, Georgetown - 6.7 reb

As way of comparison - #19 player last year was William Buford of Ohio State (28.2 min/11.5pts).

Reason I bring it us is that Royce White is the #19 player this year.
 

tjgopher said:
Rivals Top 10 Freshman:

1 - BJ Mullens, Ohio State - 20.8 min/9.3 pts/4.8 reb
2 - Jrue Holliday, UCLA - 26.6 min/9.0 pts
3 - Demar DeRozen, USC - 33.6 min/12.5 pts/5.5 reb
4 - Brandon Jennings, Italy Pro Team - 18.2 min/6.5 pts
5 - Scotty Hopson, Tennessee - 23.0 min/9.6 pts
6 - Tyreke Evans, Memphis - 28.2 min/16.8 pts/5.3 reb
7 - Al-Faourn-Aminu, Wake Forest - 28.7 min/12.6 pts/5.3 reb
8 - Greg Monroe, Georgetown - 30.8 min/12.9 pts/6.7 reb
9 - Samardo Samuels, Louisville - 24.6 min/12.1 pts/4.8 reb
10 - Willie Warren, Oklahoma - 30.7 min/15.1 pts

Highest scoring average - Tyreke Evans, Memphis - 16.8 pts
Highest minutes - Demar DeRozen, USC - 33.6 min
Highest rebounding average - Greg Monroe, Georgetown - 6.7 reb

As way of comparison - #19 player last year was William Buford of Ohio State (28.2 min/11.5pts).

Reason I bring it us is that Royce White is the #19 player this year.
Click to expand...

Some folks are expecting RW to score 15-18 a game as a fr. Perhaps, not likely however.
 




Mikie S said:
Here's Rival's list of last years Top-10 junior college seniors and how they're doing this year.

1. Mario Little Kansas 12.9 min / 4.9 pts / 3.1 reb / 1.0 ast
2. Daniel Payne Arkansas Failed to qualify
3. Tyrone Appleton Kansas 2.1 min / 0.8 pts / 0.3 reb / 0.4 ast
4. Devron Bostick Minnesota 10.0 min / 3.6 pts / 1.4 reb. 0.8 ast
5. Qa'rraan Calhoun Houston 30.0 min / 10.5 pts / 5.4 reb / 1.2 ast
6. Tyree Evans Kent State 28.4 min / 12.3 pts / 2.2 reb / 0.5 ast
7. Bobby Maze Tennessee 25.7 min / 8.6 pts / 2..4 reb / 3.2 ast
8. Jermaine Dixon Pittsburgh 24.3 min / 9.0 pts / 2.3 reb / 2.1 ast
9. Tay Waller Auburn 29.4 min / 12.8 pts / 2.8 reb / 1.6 ast
10. Juan Pattillo Oklahoma 15.1 min / 7.0 pts / 3.3 reb / 0.4 ast

Several solid players, but overall not impressive if you compare them to top-25 freshman lists.
Click to expand...

Wow. Kansas has 2 of the top 3 JuCo recruits and their coach doesn't even develop them into good players.
 

Plinnius said:
Who?
Click to expand...

Look to some of the post yesterday, Plinnius. You too FOT.

All the talk of the Fr taking big minutes from the Sr's, etc.

BTW FOT - I am not being critical of RW at all - never seen him play. I hope he is FOY. However, odds are he is not going to be a force, day one and throughout the Big 10 as a Fr.

Posted 2/28/09:

could see Royce White getting us 10-14, Joseph 10-14, Johnson 10, Sampson 8-12. More importantly, I can see those players being able to score in a half court offense.

Do you see Hoffarber or Carter scoring in double figures? Do you see Westbrook being a better player than Joseph next year?

Nobody, eh FOT?
 



TruthTeller said:
Look to some of the post yesterday, Plinnius. You too FOT.

All the talk of the Fr taking big minutes from the Sr's, etc.

BTW FOT - I am not being critical of RW at all - never seen him play. I hope he is FOY. However, odds are he is not going to be a force, day one and throughout the Big 10 as a Fr.

Posted 2/28/09:

could see Royce White getting us 10-14, Joseph 10-14, Johnson 10, Sampson 8-12. More importantly, I can see those players being able to score in a half court offense.

Do you see Hoffarber or Carter scoring in double figures? Do you see Westbrook being a better player than Joseph next year?

Nobody, eh FOT?
Click to expand...


Well, yeah, nobody. You claimed in your post that there were people claiming Royce would score 15-18 points per game. Then you try to prove your point by showing a post where the poster says 10-14 points per game. 10-14 points per game falls right in line with what Buford is giving OSU this year (12 ppg), so it shouldn't seem that unrealistic. Your claim of 15-18 points might be. And, have you found a poster who predicted 15-18 to back up your claim?
 

tjgopher said:
Well, yeah, nobody. You claimed in your post that there were people claiming Royce would score 15-18 points per game. Then you try to prove your point by showing a post where the poster says 10-14 points per game. 10-14 points per game falls right in line with what Buford is giving OSU this year (12 ppg), so it shouldn't seem that unrealistic. Your claim of 15-18 points might be. And, have you found a poster who predicted 15-18 to back up your claim?
Click to expand...

Ok tj. I was off by a point or 2. My apologies.

Point is there are folks looking to the Fr to come in and take the minutes from the upper classmen. RW would have to score 15-18 a game if he is taking the minutes. Oh, and if you think the Gophers will win big next year.

Are you saying that is false? Do you think the Gophs will win big with the Fr taking the PT of the Sr's?
 

TruthTeller said:
I was off by a point or 2. My apologies.
Click to expand...

Not to nitpick, but your range was off by as much as 8 points. So, it isn't insignificant.

TruthTeller said:
RW would have to score 15-18 a game if he is taking the minutes.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that? We don't have anyone averaging over 12.2 ppg right now, so why would Royce have to score at least 15 points to take minutes from any current player? We only have one player even averaging in double figures right now, so I would think Royce could get minutes from one or two of those current players not averaging a great deal of points.

TruthTeller said:
Do you think the Gophs will win big with the Fr taking the PT of the Sr's?
Click to expand...

Sure, I think it is possible that Royce takes minutes away from next year's Gophers seniors Busch and Bostick for sure. I think it is also possible that another senior next year Westbrook sees his minutes decrease very slightly from his 24 mpg this year. And, I think it is possible the Gophers will win with that happening. Is it a sure thing? Of course not. Nothing ever is.
 

That was my post predicting that Royce White should be good for 10-14 a game, note that I excluded projections for Rodney Williams, Mbwake, and Cobbs. Evan Buford was the #19 player in the nation and is getting 28 mins and 12 pts and he's a second option behind Evan Turner. Royce White won't have an Evan Turner (wing like Buford) playing a similar position and being the undisputed #1 scoring option here at the U.

We don't have the players to run a decent half court set and White should be apart of the solution. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 20-25 minutes a game as a frosh considering the challenges in the offensive zone our front court has faced this year.

I think White will be more versatile than Dusty Rychart and will be able to play more on the wing, but not as explosive as Willie Burton who could play some 2. He's in the class or Humphries, Rickert, Aldrich, Pryzbilla, and El-Amin in regards to being big time national recruit who could play at a UNC, Duke, Kansas, or UCLA.
 



tjgopher said:
Not to nitpick, but your range was off by as much as 8 points. So, it isn't insignificant.



Why do you say that? We don't have anyone averaging over 12.2 ppg right now, so why would Royce have to score at least 15 points to take minutes from any current player? We only have one player even averaging in double figures right now, so I would think Royce could get minutes from one or two of those current players not averaging a great deal of points.



Sure, I think it is possible that Royce takes minutes away from next year's Gophers seniors Busch and Bostick for sure. I think it is also possible that another senior next year Westbrook sees his minutes decrease very slightly from his 24 mpg this year. And, I think it is possible the Gophers will win with that happening. Is it a sure thing? Of course not. Nothing ever is.
Click to expand...

Busch and Bostick? Ok - However, I am talking about DJ and Westbrook, more specifically. You know tj - the Sr's who take most of the minutes as Jr's?

Nitpick - you are nitpicking. Of course, you think it is "possible" the Gophers "will win". No kidding? Way to really go out on the limb, tj.

And your "out" is classic - "Is it a sure thing? Of course not. Nothing ever is"

Great confidence in your team, tj. And your very own predictions. It shows.

"Why do you say that? We don't have anyone averaging over 12.2 ppg right now, so why would Royce have to score at least 15 points to take minutes from any current player? We only have one player even averaging in double figures right now, so I would think Royce could get minutes from one or two of those current players not averaging a great deal of points."

To win and win big tj. That is why I say that. Isnt that the goal? Gophs are not "winning big" now, are they?
 

TruthTeller said:
Look to some of the post yesterday, Plinnius. You too FOT.

All the talk of the Fr taking big minutes from the Sr's, etc.

BTW FOT - I am not being critical of RW at all - never seen him play. I hope he is FOY. However, odds are he is not going to be a force, day one and throughout the Big 10 as a Fr.

Posted 2/28/09:

could see Royce White getting us 10-14, Joseph 10-14, Johnson 10, Sampson 8-12. More importantly, I can see those players being able to score in a half court offense.

Do you see Hoffarber or Carter scoring in double figures? Do you see Westbrook being a better player than Joseph next year?

Nobody, eh FOT?
Click to expand...

Lemme help U with math. The numbers 15 and 18 are HIGHER THAN the numbers 10 and 14.
 

TruthTeller said:
Ok tj. I was off by a point or 2. My apologies.

Point is there are folks looking to the Fr to come in and take the minutes from the upper classmen. RW would have to score 15-18 a game if he is taking the minutes. Oh, and if you think the Gophers will win big next year.

Are you saying that is false? Do you think the Gophs will win big with the Fr taking the PT of the Sr's?
Click to expand...

You're "off" by QUITE A FEW points in the IQ category.
 


TruthTeller said:
You are a genius with numbers, fot. How many 20 win seasons does tubby have again?

Just not so good at reality.
Click to expand...

16 straight. How far back in Gopher history do you go to count 16 (not consecutive) 20 W seasons?

But you have reminded me that EVERY fanbase has MORONS like you.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
16 straight. How far back in Gopher history do you go to count 16 (not consecutive) 20 W seasons?

But you have reminded me that EVERY fanbase has MORONS like you.
Click to expand...

FOT, no need for namecalling.

Like to dish it out but cant take it.

Talk today, fot. Or is that a problem?
 

TruthTeller said:
I am talking about DJ and Westbrook, more specifically. You know tj - the Sr's who take most of the minutes as Jr's?
Click to expand...

And, I said I predicted a slight dropoff in minutes for Westbrook. Probably a slight drop for DJ, too.

TruthTeller said:
Of course, you think it is "possible" the Gophers "will win". No kidding? Way to really go out on the limb, tj. And your "out" is classic - "Is it a sure thing? Of course not. Nothing ever is."
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I didn't realize one needed to "go out on a limb" to post on here. My "out" is simply common sense, not meant to be an out. Why would I need an "out" anyway? Why would I go out on a limb right now? Next year's team is 10 months away from even stepping foot on a practice floor. If you want me to put an early number on it - how about 21-23 wins next year, which would be a step up from this year, particularly with a tougher schedule. Is that okay? Are my expectations too low? Have I gone out on a big enough limb for you? Please, grant me your approval. I'm not sure I could go on in life without getting that feel-good nod from you. It is what we all live for here on the Gopherhole.

What is your early prediction? I haven't seen it yet? I'd love for you to put a number up, too.

TruthTeller said:
To win and win big tj. That is why I say that. Isnt that the goal? Gophs are not "winning big" now, are they?
Click to expand...

Agreed. For us to win big, it'd be nice to have Royce score big. But, that doesn't mean he has to score big to see big minutes next year. Would I like to see him score big? Of course.
 

tjgopher said:
And, I said I predicted a slight dropoff in minutes for Westbrook. Probably a slight drop for DJ, too.



I'm sorry, I didn't realize one needed to "go out on a limb" to post on here. My "out" is simply common sense, not meant to be an out. Why would I need an "out" anyway? Why would I go out on a limb right now? Next year's team is 10 months away from even stepping foot on a practice floor. If you want me to put an early number on it - how about 21-23 wins next year, which would be a step up from this year, particularly with a tougher schedule. Is that okay? Are my expectations too low? Have I gone out on a big enough limb for you? Please, grant me your approval. I'm not sure I could go on in life without getting that feel-good nod from you. It is what we all live for here on the Gopherhole.

What is your early prediction? I haven't seen it yet? I'd love for you to put a number up, too.



Agreed. For us to win big, it'd be nice to have Royce score big. But, that doesn't mean he has to score big to see big minutes next year. Would I like to see him score big? Of course.
Click to expand...

The goal is to win big, tj, not for any one player to score big - at least for me.

The whole point of the thread is to look to next year; perhaps you should be in another thread if you dont want to talk next season.

BTW - you still dont admit to the insider role. With your connections, I am sure Gopherhole readers should get a real warm fuzzy reading your information. Come clean, tj.
 

I guess these seniors will have no problem keeping their jobs based on the fact they are averaging about 40 points a game.
 

#10 Willie Warren is way better than most of the guys on this list.

---------------------

Originally Posted by tjgopher
Rivals Top 10 Freshman:

1 - BJ Mullens, Ohio State - 20.8 min/9.3 pts/4.8 reb
2 - Jrue Holliday, UCLA - 26.6 min/9.0 pts
3 - Demar DeRozen, USC - 33.6 min/12.5 pts/5.5 reb
4 - Brandon Jennings, Italy Pro Team - 18.2 min/6.5 pts
5 - Scotty Hopson, Tennessee - 23.0 min/9.6 pts
6 - Tyreke Evans, Memphis - 28.2 min/16.8 pts/5.3 reb
7 - Al-Faourn-Aminu, Wake Forest - 28.7 min/12.6 pts/5.3 reb
8 - Greg Monroe, Georgetown - 30.8 min/12.9 pts/6.7 reb
9 - Samardo Samuels, Louisville - 24.6 min/12.1 pts/4.8 reb
10 - Willie Warren, Oklahoma - 30.7 min/15.1 pts
 

TruthTeller said:
The whole point of the thread is to look to next year; perhaps you should be in another thread if you dont want to talk next season.
Click to expand...

Uh, no, the whole point of this thread was about THIS YEAR's junior college players and their impact on their programs. That led to comparison's about THIS YEAR's freshman and how they impacted their programs. The thread had some promise as it included some good info. Then, you hijacked the thread and I took the bait, unfortunately.

And, I'm still waiting for your prediction on next year, since you're so intent on talking about it. But, I'm sure I'll be waiting for that forever.

TruthTeller said:
BTW - you still dont admit to the insider role. With your connections, I am sure Gopherhole readers should get a real warm fuzzy reading your information.
Click to expand...

Speaking of warm fuzzies - I'm flattered that you think my opinion on here carries enough validity that you think I have an insider role, but I don't.
 

More top-100 stuff

Past history should at least give us a clue to what we can expect from the Gophers two top-100 rated freshmen next year. Looks like a lot of solid freshman contributions from #19 (Royce White) and just so-so from #95 (Rodney Williams). Some of the #1's appear to be pretty good.

Rivals #1 rated players:
2003 Lebron James NBA, #1 overall pick Cleveland
2004 Dwight Howard NBA, #1 overall pick Orlando
2005 Gerald Green NBA, #18 pick Boston
2006 Greg Oden tOSU 28.9 min / 15.7 pts / 9.6 reb / 3.3 blks
2007 Michael Beasley Kansas State 31.5 min / 26.2 pts / 12.4 reb / 1.6 blks
2008 B.J. Mullens tOSU 20.8 min / 9.3 pts / 4.8 reb / 1.2 blks

Rivals 19th rated players:
2003 J.R. Giddens Kansas 25.9 min / 11.3 pts / 3.6 reb / 0.8 ast
2004 Shawne Williams Memphis (rs?) 27.3 min / 13.2 pts / 6.2 reb / 1.4 blks
2005 Calvin Miles NBA, 2nd round Jazz
2006 Obi Muonelo OK State 20.8 min / 10.1 pts / 3.6 reb / 1.8 ast
2007 Chandler Parsons Florida 20.7 min / 8.1 pts / 4.0 reb / 1.4 ast
2008 William Buford tOSU 28.2 min / 11.3 pts / 3.4 reb / 1.2 ast
2009 Royce White Minnesota ????

Rivals 95th rated players:
2003 Lanny Smith Houston 28.6 min / 8.4 pts / 2.1 reb / 3.2 ast
2004 Ronald Coleman Michigan 27.8 min / 7.5 pts / 2.5 reb / 1.1 ast
2005 Octavious Spann Georgetown 5.7 min / 1.8 pts / 1.5 reb / 0.6 ast
2006 Will Walker DePaul 14.9 min / 3.3 pts / 1.3 reb / 0.9 ast
2007 Dante Jackson Xavier 10.4 min / 2.4 pts / 1.1 reb / 0.6 ast
2008 Scott Suggs Washington 4.8 min / 1.2 pts / 0.4 reb / 0.1 ast
2009 Rodney Williams Minnesota ????
 

Back to the original intent of the thread, does the production of this year's JUCOs decrease our expectations for Mbwake? I thought we had a beast coming in Bostick who's scoring, size, and thick core sounded like the second coming of Vince Grier. Carter will fill a nice role as a high energy, 5-15 minute a game guy when our front court deepens and improves.

I guess we need to remember that for every Grier, Bobby Jackson, and Tavarus Bennett there is a Kevin Clark, Nurembi, and Bostick.
 

I would never put Kevin Clark in the same group as Nurumbi - Clark was a very good contributor to the team until he was included in the scandal. I think Clark would start for the current team over Westbrook or at least get very good minutes. Heading into his senior season, the U marketing department had a great poster "Lewis & Clark expedition" with him and Q.

JUCOs are a crap shoot. Most of us expected a bigger contribution out of Bostick and little contribution out of Carter...and here we are almost finished with the season and I wish Carter would play more as he brings a lot to the team, including a tenacity for loose balls and rebounds.

Go Gophers!!
 

akgopher said:
Back to the original intent of the thread, does the production of this year's JUCOs decrease our expectations for Mbwake? I thought we had a beast coming in Bostick who's scoring, size, and thick core sounded like the second coming of Vince Grier. Carter will fill a nice role as a high energy, 5-15 minute a game guy when our front court deepens and improves.

I guess we need to remember that for every Grier, Bobby Jackson, and Tavarus Bennett there is a Kevin Clark, Nurembi, and Bostick.
Click to expand...

For me, it doesn't at all. We're probably not going to be counting on Mbakwe to score a ton of points like we had hoped with Bostick coming into this season. Mbakwe is a fiery rebounder, which is one of the areas that we need to shore up and that's why I think that he'll either start or play a ton next season. Will he score some points? Yeah, probably. But based on the evaluations of him as a player that I've seen, he primiarly excels in the areas of physicality, and these are areas in which Bostick, and even Paul Carter for that matter, do not. Carter is okay, but he's a finesse, slasher type with long arms. Bostick is pretty much a jumper shooter.

Mbakwe meanwhile is neither of those things. He's much more muscular and is more of a straight-up, block-to-block player, which will help with the amount of banging that goes on in the Big Ten. He's also a pretty good defender based on some of the postings that I've seen. On top of that, he had a year at Marquette and even though he didn't play a whole lot, he did a taste of life at the D1 level.

Taking all this into accountl, I'm expecting a bit more from Mbakwe than I did from either Carter or Bostick at the beginning of the season.
 

Here are last year's JUCO rebounding leaders. Joseph Fulce averaged almost the exact same numbers as Mbakwe this both in PPG and RPG. This is what Fulce is doing at Marquette this year.

Of course, the problem with all these JUCO numbers is that we have no idea how many minutes these guys are playing.
 

akgopher said:
Back to the original intent of the thread, does the production of this year's JUCOs decrease our expectations for Mbwake? I thought we had a beast coming in Bostick who's scoring, size, and thick core sounded like the second coming of Vince Grier. Carter will fill a nice role as a high energy, 5-15 minute a game guy when our front court deepens and improves.

I guess we need to remember that for every Grier, Bobby Jackson, and Tavarus Bennett there is a Kevin Clark, Nurembi, and Bostick.
Click to expand...

Illinois fans thought the same way about Dominique Keller, who averaged 25 PPG last year.
 

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