2025 high school football thread

[Some guy]

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default...s-by-enrollment_2025-2026-and-2026-2027_1.pdf
The classification numbers came out today.



The stated criteria for classification on MSHSL website is

Top 32 = 6a
Next 48 = 5a
Next 48 = 4a
Next 54 = 3a
Rest of teams split between 1A and 2a
150 or fewer enrollment = 9 man



For 6a this would mean:
Andover, rogers, Moorhead, Apple Valley Up


Rochester Mayo, Burnsville, Buffalo, coon rapids down.


Team 32 is apple Valley
Team 33 is Burnsville
Team 34 is spring lake park

 

[MaxyJR1]

Thanks for sharing I knew the enrollments were coming out soon.

 

[Some guy]

Thanks for sharing I knew the enrollments were coming out soon.

I don’t know the lower classes to project who moves up and down and would appreciate anyone who tells me who is moving in and out of 5a, 4a etc

 

[MaxyJR1]

I don’t know the lower classes to project who moves up and down and would appreciate anyone who tells me who is moving in and out of 5a, 4a etc

Doesn’t look like much movement. Depends on how TG, Cretin, Benilde and some of the Minneapolis schools go.

47-52 Are Grand Rapids, Roosevelt, MplsSouth, and Willmar. 5A/4A line.

Cretin, Benilde, St Thomas and Totino all in 4A range.


4A/3A Line is Stewartville, Jordan and Annandale in 4A and Hibbing and Camden 3A.

 

[Some guy]

Doesn’t look like much movement. Depends on how TG, Cretin, Benilde and some of the Minneapolis schools go.

47-52 Are Grand Rapids, Roosevelt, MplsSouth, and Willmar. 5A/4A line.

Cretin, Benilde, St Thomas and Totino all in 4A range.


4A/3A Line is Stewartville, Jordan and Annandale in 4A and Hibbing and Camden 3A.

People opting up or not could still have implications even in 6a

There is an appeals process to try to appeal down but since coon rapids went to state semi’s while on appeal they haven’t accepted an appeals down

 

[disco]

For shits and giggles, here are the ACTUAL enrollment numbers this year, as opposed to the adjusted high school league numbers. I think I filtered out any large middle and grade schools, as well as charter/online schools that have large enrollments. This is what 6A and 5A would be if they didn't adjust. Lakeville North would be the last 6A school. Armstrong would be the largest 5A school. Delano would be the smallest 5A school.
Next one down would be Columbia Heights.

Wayzata High​	3781​
Minnetonka Senior High​	3514​
Blaine High School​	3157​
Champlin Park High School​	2978​
Prior Lake High School​	2856​
Eden Prairie Senior High​	2844​
Shakopee High School​	2823​
Stillwater Area High School​	2658​
Edina Senior High​	2641​
White Bear Lake Area High School​	2572​
Maple Grove Senior High​	2453​
Rosemount Senior High​	2364​
Anoka High School​	2348​
Eastview Senior High​	2328​
Osseo Senior High​	2289​
Roseville Area Senior High​	2276​
Eagan Senior High​	2274​
St. Michael-Albertville Senior High​	2204​
Farmington High School​	2153​
Moorhead High School​	2122​
East Ridge High School​	2072​
Centennial High School​	2067​
Park Center IB World School​	2061​
Burnsville High School​	2029​
Hopkins High School​	2003​
Apple Valley Senior High​	1999​
Park High School​	1992​
Coon Rapids High School​	1975​
Woodbury High School​	1943​
Spring Lake Park Senior High​	1909​
Rogers Senior High​	1888​
Lakeville North High​	1871​
Robbinsdale Armstrong Senior High​	1840​
Mounds View Senior High​	1833​
Lakeville South High​	1816​
Irondale Senior High​	1812​
Forest Lake Area High School​	1805​
Brainerd Senior High​	1805​
Mayo High School​	1787​
Andover High School​	1758​
Two Rivers High School​	1710​
Tartan Senior High​	1687​
Jefferson High School​	1684​
Central Senior High​	1682​
Buffalo Senior High​	1681​
North Senior High​	1649​
Century High School​	1608​
Harding Senior High​	1591​
Cambridge-Isanti High School​	1582​
Kennedy High School​	1578​
Elk River Senior High​	1562​
Technical Senior High​	1561​
John Marshall High School​	1549​
Bemidji Senior High​	1537​
Washburn High​	1521​
Chaska High School​	1495​
East High School​	1495​
Austin Senior High​	1485​
Owatonna Senior High​	1468​
St. Louis Park Senior High​	1397​
Robbinsdale Cooper Senior High​	1396​
Highland Park Senior High​	1392​
Chanhassen High School​	1385​
Waconia High School​	1335​
Sauk Rapids-Rice Senior High​	1319​
Alexandria Area High School​	1315​
New Prague Senior High​	1315​
Monticello Senior High​	1313​
Mankato East Senior High​	1302​
Hastings High School​	1301​
Northfield Senior High​	1283​
Sartell Senior High​	1269​
Apollo Senior High​	1264​
South High​	1257​
Mankato West Senior High​	1232​
Willmar Senior High​	1205​
Albert Lea Senior High​	1196​
Southwest High​	1195​
Richfield Senior High​	1183​
Mahtomedi Senior High​	1175​
Delano Senior High​	1158​

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

For shits and giggles, here are the ACTUAL enrollment numbers this year, as opposed to the adjusted high school league numbers. I think I filtered out any large middle and grade schools, as well as charter/online schools that have large enrollments. This is what 6A and 5A would be if they didn't adjust. Lakeville North would be the last 6A school. Armstrong would be the largest 5A school. Delano would be the smallest 5A school.
Next one down would be Columbia Heights.

Wayzata High​	3781​
Minnetonka Senior High​	3514​
Blaine High School​	3157​
Champlin Park High School​	2978​
Prior Lake High School​	2856​
Eden Prairie Senior High​	2844​
Shakopee High School​	2823​
Stillwater Area High School​	2658​
Edina Senior High​	2641​
White Bear Lake Area High School​	2572​
Maple Grove Senior High​	2453​
Rosemount Senior High​	2364​
Anoka High School​	2348​
Eastview Senior High​	2328​
Osseo Senior High​	2289​
Roseville Area Senior High​	2276​
Eagan Senior High​	2274​
St. Michael-Albertville Senior High​	2204​
Farmington High School​	2153​
Moorhead High School​	2122​
East Ridge High School​	2072​
Centennial High School​	2067​
Park Center IB World School​	2061​
Burnsville High School​	2029​
Hopkins High School​	2003​
Apple Valley Senior High​	1999​
Park High School​	1992​
Coon Rapids High School​	1975​
Woodbury High School​	1943​
Spring Lake Park Senior High​	1909​
Rogers Senior High​	1888​
Lakeville North High​	1871​
Robbinsdale Armstrong Senior High​	1840​
Mounds View Senior High​	1833​
Lakeville South High​	1816​
Irondale Senior High​	1812​
Forest Lake Area High School​	1805​
Brainerd Senior High​	1805​
Mayo High School​	1787​
Andover High School​	1758​
Two Rivers High School​	1710​
Tartan Senior High​	1687​
Jefferson High School​	1684​
Central Senior High​	1682​
Buffalo Senior High​	1681​
North Senior High​	1649​
Century High School​	1608​
Harding Senior High​	1591​
Cambridge-Isanti High School​	1582​
Kennedy High School​	1578​
Elk River Senior High​	1562​
Technical Senior High​	1561​
John Marshall High School​	1549​
Bemidji Senior High​	1537​
Washburn High​	1521​
Chaska High School​	1495​
East High School​	1495​
Austin Senior High​	1485​
Owatonna Senior High​	1468​
St. Louis Park Senior High​	1397​
Robbinsdale Cooper Senior High​	1396​
Highland Park Senior High​	1392​
Chanhassen High School​	1385​
Waconia High School​	1335​
Sauk Rapids-Rice Senior High​	1319​
Alexandria Area High School​	1315​
New Prague Senior High​	1315​
Monticello Senior High​	1313​
Mankato East Senior High​	1302​
Hastings High School​	1301​
Northfield Senior High​	1283​
Sartell Senior High​	1269​
Apollo Senior High​	1264​
South High​	1257​
Mankato West Senior High​	1232​
Willmar Senior High​	1205​
Albert Lea Senior High​	1196​
Southwest High​	1195​
Richfield Senior High​	1183​
Mahtomedi Senior High​	1175​
Delano Senior High​	1158​

Do some of these schools calculate 8-12? That would seem to skew on the high side. I know Albert Lea's number is high for 9-12.

 

[disco]

Do some of these schools calculate 8-12? That would seem to skew on the high side. I know Albert Lea's number is high for 9-12.

I suppose for some they could. But at the same time, for last years list, White Bear separated North and South campuses on this list and now they're combined for numbers. But I think most of the larger schools are 9-12 now. Hopkins was the last big school to be 10-12 and have Junior High schools that I know of and that's done now.

The point of posting this (and it's not that easy to find), is to show how much the MSHSL adjustments really skews things.

 

[Gopherwatcher]

Do some of these schools calculate 8-12? That would seem to skew on the high side. I know Albert Lea's number is high for 9-12.

I've heard that the new thing they are doing for free/reduced lunch part is they are only counting those that qualify through direct certification from the state database, so kids that don't automatically qualify and fill in the "form", don't count as free/reduced anymore for enrollment purposes for the MSHSL. At least this is the way it's been explained to me.

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

I suppose for some they could. But at the same time, for last years list, White Bear separated North and South campuses on this list and now they're combined for numbers. But I think most of the larger schools are 9-12 now. Hopkins was the last big school to be 10-12 and have Junior High schools that I know of and that's done now.

The point of posting this (and it's not that easy to find), is to show how much the MSHSL adjustments really skews things.

I've heard that the new thing they are doing for free/reduced lunch part is they are only counting those that qualify through direct certification from the state database, so kids that don't automatically qualify and fill in the "form", don't count as free/reduced anymore for enrollment purposes for the MSHSL. At least this is the way it's been explained to me.

I just know that graduating classes are closer to 200 than 300 for Albert Lea these days. Class 3A or 4A would be a more appropriate size based on 9-12 enrollment.

 

[StudentSectionMenace]

Dang, that really sucks for Moorhead and any unlucky teams that are in their conference. Unless they do what Buffalo did for a while and keep a 5A schedule and just play 6A playoffs their away game travel times are going to be crazy.

 

[Some guy]

Do some of these schools calculate 8-12? That would seem to skew on the high side. I know Albert Lea's number is high for 9-12.

They all calculate using same methodology

 

[disco]

They all calculate using same methodology

They do for MSHSL numbers. Not sure for the department of education. The DOE spreadsheet I copied from is ALL schools, so I had to filter out a few really large middle schools to get the high school numbers. But the intent wasn't to be exact. As I wrote, it's intended show how different the the MSHSL numbers are from actual enrollment numbers in the two largest classes for football.

The difference between actual and adjusted enrollment for schools like Coon Rapids, Burnsville and Park Center are around 500 or more. To me, that's insane.

 

[Some guy]

They do for MSHSL numbers. Not sure for the department of education. The DOE spreadsheet I copied from is ALL schools, so I had to filter out a few really large middle schools to get the high school numbers. But the intent wasn't to be exact. As I wrote, it's intended show how different the the MSHSL numbers are from actual enrollment numbers in the two largest classes for football.

The difference between actual and adjusted enrollment for schools like Coon Rapids, Burnsville and Park Center are around 500 or more. To me, that's insane.

Every free and reduced kid counts as .6
Has been that way over a decade

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

Every free and reduced kid counts as .6
Has been that way over a decade

Looks like a 3/5ths compromise

 

[Some guy]

Looks like a 3/5ths compromise

Personally I would’ve picked .5 or .7 to avoid that comparison but that’s what they picked

 

[GopherGrit]

6A was created to pull out the top end football programs away into their own division. The schools where no one in the rest of the state has any real chance to compete.

Somewhere in the middle of 6A on down ... those schools don't look anything like those top end schools and are really no different than the upper 5A schools.

I know I'm not saying anything groundbreaking there ... you can say that same thing about the breakpoint between any two classes.


But I guess what I would do if I was a czar/dictator, is I would make 6A be a really special class that was only the top 12 or 16. Just the "mega" programs, in terms of enrollment, district wealth, football budget & participation, and youth/feeder budget & participation.

 

[Some guy]

6A was created to pull out the top end football programs away into their own division. The schools where no one in the rest of the state has any real chance to compete.

Somewhere in the middle of 6A on down ... those schools don't look anything like those top end schools and are really no different than the upper 5A schools.

I know I'm not saying anything groundbreaking there ... you can say that same thing about the breakpoint between any two classes.


But I guess what I would do if I was a czar/dictator, is I would make 6A be a really special class that was only the top 12 or 16. Just the "mega" programs, in terms of enrollment, district wealth, football budget & participation, and youth/feeder budget & participation.

The real problem in Mn Hs football is obsession with the playoffs when the real issue is not enough competitive games in the regular season.


Consolidate a class. Have the top 32 from each class make the playoff. A little over half would make it. The rest can play a 9th game against another non playoff team OR you can pick the 32 after a 9 game regular season

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

They all calculate using same methodology

I don't have an issue with the MSHSL numbers. The figures in disco's post seem inconsistent.

 

[Some guy]

I don't have an issue with the MSHSL numbers. The figures in disco's post seem inconsistent.

Haven’t looked too much at them

There may be errors in MSHSL numbers
They say 6a is top 32 but their listed cut line is team 31


Perhaps someone opted up? Or perhaps some of the numbers are wrong?
Or perhaps whoever posted cut line did it wrong

 

[xyz1]

The real problem in Mn Hs football is obsession with the playoffs when the real issue is not enough competitive games in the regular season.

This is absolutely right, and the rigid class scheduling is a big part of the problem. If the bottom half of 6A was allowed to play 5A teams it would be better for everyone.

 

[Some guy]

They do for MSHSL numbers. Not sure for the department of education. The DOE spreadsheet I copied from is ALL schools, so I had to filter out a few really large middle schools to get the high school numbers. But the intent wasn't to be exact. As I wrote, it's intended show how different the the MSHSL numbers are from actual enrollment numbers in the two largest classes for football.

The difference between actual and adjusted enrollment for schools like Coon Rapids, Burnsville and Park Center are around 500 or more. To me, that's insane.

Half of those schools qualify for free and reduced lunch.
So those numbers make perfect sense to me.


If you have 2600 kids. 1300 are free and reduced. Your MSHSL number would be 520 different

 

[disco]

I don't have an issue with the MSHSL numbers. The figures in disco's post seem inconsistent.

They're from the MN Department of Education.

Data Reports and Analytics

public.education.mn.gov

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

They're from the MN Department of Education.

Data Reports and Analytics

public.education.mn.gov

I don't doubt what you found is accurate. I'm just wondering if the enrollment is skewed by the fact that some schools count 8-12 and others count 9-12. Maybe a better measure is average class size for each high school.

 

[disco]

But I guess what I would do if I was a czar/dictator, is I would make 6A be a really special class that was only the top 12 or 16. Just the "mega" programs, in terms of enrollment, district wealth, football budget & participation, and youth/feeder budget & participation.

Not much of a 'state' championship with only 12-16 teams.
And there will always be some issues, particularly around open enrollment.

Minnetonka is the second largest school based on adjusted enrollment, and it's a wealthy district. But 25-40% of their students live outside the district and are open enrolled.

Hopkins is a large district with lots of wealthy neighborhoods. But a lot of those wealthy neighborhoods enroll their kids outside the district into Minnetonka and Edina.

I was talking to a friend who coached at Orono for a time. Orono might be the wealthiest district in the state. But it was hard to get a referendum passed he said, because so many of the families out there sent their kids to private school, and didn't give a shit about the public schools.

 

[MNfootballfan]

This is absolutely right, and the rigid class scheduling is a big part of the problem. If the bottom half of 6A was allowed to play 5A teams it would be better for everyone.

What do you consider the bottom half of 6A? Enrollment?

If that is the case you'll have teams like Lakeville North, Lakeville South, Farmington, and East Ridge playing 5A schools...

 

[disco]

A

I don't doubt what you found is accurate. I'm just wondering if the enrollment is skewed by the fact that some schools count 8-12 and others count 9-12. Maybe a better measure is average class size for each high school.

You mentioned Albert Lea.

Albert Lea is 50.67% reduced lunch.
1196-363 shows an adjusted enrollment of 833 just doing the math.

The high school league adjusted number for Albert Lea is 827. So pretty damn close.
It's not an 8-12 number. That's the difference between real and adjusted numbers.

 

[xyz1]

Fair point - I meant "bottom half" in terms of their realistic ability to compete. The Lakeville schools punch above their enrollment size as affluent suburbs with well-run and extensive youth football programs; I'm thinking more of places like Hopkins, Park, Roseville, and Burnsville, as well as Apple Valley if they're now up to 6A.

 

[disco]

Fair point - I meant "bottom half" in terms of their realistic ability to compete. The Lakeville schools punch above their enrollment size as affluent suburbs with well-run and extensive youth football programs; I'm thinking more of places like Hopkins, Park, Roseville, and Burnsville, as well as Apple Valley if they're now up to 6A.

That just feels so subjective. You don't have to go back that far to when Burnsville to name one, was a powerhouse in football and hockey. And some of these schools are still powerhouses in other sports, despite the reduced lunch thing - Hopkins and Park Center in hoops.

 

[Some guy]

That just feels so subjective. You don't have to go back that far to when Burnsville to name one, was a powerhouse in football and hockey. And some of these schools are still powerhouses in other sports, despite the reduced lunch thing - Hopkins and Park Center in hoops.

The only fair way to do it is a formula and hard cut lines

There are no ties
Someone wins and someone loses

So if you game the system so Hopkins plays 5a teams and is 4-4 instead of 2-6

Well you just cost St. Louis park and tartan a win too. You can’t rig it in favor of one without rigging it against another. So best to not rig at all.

The only debates should be about the formula, the cut lines, and the structure