Sid Hartman: Patience, not firing, needed by Gophers

[BleedGopher]

From Sid:

It's been 43 years since the Gophers won a Big Ten football championship. They shared the 1967 title with Indiana and Purdue, and because the Gophers and Boilermakers had been in the Rose Bowl more recently, the Hoosiers went to Pasadena.

From 1967 to 2006, the Gophers have had seven head football coaches -- Murray Warmath, Cal Stoll, Joe Salem, Lou Holtz, John Gutekunst, Jim Wacker and Glen Mason.

Every one of these coaches had done a good job at his previous school. I happen to know each of them was sought by other schools, and each apparently made a mistake when he took the Gophers job.

Yes, and every one of them except for Holtz, who left Minnesota to go to Notre Dame, was fired because he didn't consistently field winning teams.

Now you hear some fans yelling "Fire Brewster!" at last Saturday's game with Northern Illinois.

No doubt, Gophers athletic director Joel Maturi and university President Robert Bruininks have fans chanting for a coaching change because Tim Brewster is 1-3 after the Gophers suffered two embarrassing losses to Northern Illinois and South Dakota.

But continuity is important, and if you look back at the early records of two great football coaches in neighboring states -- former Wisconsin coach Barry Alvarez and Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz -- you will learn their bosses had patience and it paid off.

Like Brewster, who is in his fourth year, they didn't start very well.

Alvarez, now the Badgers' athletic director, went 11-22 overall and 5-19 in the Big Ten in his first three years. Wisconsin finished in 10th place in 1990, tied for eighth in 1991 and tied for sixth in 1992. In his fourth year, Alvarez was 10-1-1, tied for first in the Big Ten with a 6-1-1 record and then won the Rose Bowl with a 21-16 victory over UCLA.

Maturi was at Wisconsin from 1987 to 1996, including a stint as associate director of athletics from 1992 to 1996, so he saw the improvement of Alvarez's teams firsthand.

One of the defensive coaches on that Rose Bowl team was Gophers defensive coordinator Kevin Cosgrove. Cosgrove, who was at Wisconsin from 1990 to 2003, was part of three Big Ten championship teams and nine bowl appearances with the Badgers.

Also on the Wisconsin staff when the Badgers went to the 1999 Rose Bowl was Gophers offensive coordinator Jeff Horton. He was at Wisconsin as quarterbacks coach from 1999 to 2005. A third current Gophers coach -- offensive line coach Tim Davis -- was on the Badgers staff from 1997 to 2001, coaching tackles and tight ends.

As for Ferentz, he was 11-24 overall and 7-17 in his first three years in the Big Ten. He was 1-10 overall and 0-8 in the Big Ten in his first year at Iowa in 1999 and 3-9 overall and 3-5 in the Big Ten in his second year. In his third year, the Hawkeyes were 7-5 (4-4 Big Ten), went to the Alamo Bowl and beat Texas Tech 19-16.

In his fourth year, Ferentz coached the Hawkeyes to a 11-2 overall record and tied for the Big Ten title with an 8-0 mark. Iowa went to the Orange Bowl, losing to USC 38-17, and has had only one sub-.500 season (6-7 in 2006) since 2001.

I'm not saying Brewster is going to take the Gophers to the Rose Bowl this year or next. But I do believe they have young talent, once they get some experience, to be much better next year.

Yes they are 1-3 now, but they are 0-0 in the Big Ten. Nobody knows what the rest of the season will bring.

What I am saying is that firing coaches at Minnesota hasn't produced any success, so let's not be firing a coach after only four games this season.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/g...rksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

Go Gophers!!

 

[1983]

While I get very mad at Sid most of the time, Sid is the best and most respected advocate of the University. He is not uninformed.

 

[thailleagle]

Give him 5 years...that way we don't have to hear the "maybe if they would've waited one more season" excuse down the line...

 

[ncgo4]

Is anything he said wrong? I don't think so.

 

[MRJ]

While I get very mad at Sid most of the time, Sid is the best and most respected advocate of the University. He is not uninformed.

Meaning what exactly? I understand he's highly respected and a Minnesota institution when it comes to sports. But he's grasping at some pretty big straws here by comparing Brewster to Alvarez and Ferentz. The last line is especially amusing: "What I am saying is that firing coaches at Minnesota hasn't produced any success, so let's not be firing a coach after only four games this season."

Four games? This has been four YEARS. That's just one minor detail Sid seems to be missing. But the point I think he's trying to make is it would be better to keep our currently crappy coach because firing previously crappy coaches hasn't worked. Brilliant.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

I understand Sid's position, and I don't necessarily disagree with much of what he's saying. And I'm not wholly opposed to giving Brew a fifth year, if we can see some signs of life or improvement over then next 8 conference games.

What's more troubling is that really, aside from starting out the 2008 season 7-1, there haven't been many flashes of what could be. Continuity IS important. Unfortunately Brewster's lack of understanding of that early in his tenure here probably will cost him the patience we might have otherwise had, if we had more continuity in the coordinator position.

 

[Gopher_Ace]

I'll be lucky if I dont get arrested for knocking someone out at TCF Bank Stadium this season. In the stands and in the locker room I came close to assault last weekend. Gonna be a long season hopefully it doesnt end in jail.

 

[wdgold]

Meaning what exactly? I understand he's highly respected and a Minnesota institution when it comes to sports. But he's grasping at some pretty big straws here by comparing Brewster to Alvarez and Ferentz. Four games? This has been four YEARS. That's just one minor detail Sid seems to be missing.

I agree! Look what these coaches did in their 4th year, so here we are in our 4th year and so far nothing to brag about at all!! OK, based on this comparison let's give Brew the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do in big ten play. For Ferentz and Alvarez there 4th year was their big breakout year, so as far as I am concerned if this isn't a breakout year then Brew should be fired. Right now it's looking more like another breakdown year.

 

[Formo]

Meaning what exactly? I understand he's highly respected and a Minnesota institution when it comes to sports. But he's grasping at some pretty big straws here by comparing Brewster to Alvarez and Ferentz. The last line is especially amusing: "What I am saying is that firing coaches at Minnesota hasn't produced any success, so let's not be firing a coach after only four games this season."

Four games? This has been four YEARS. That's just one minor detail Sid seems to be missing. But the point I think he's trying to make is it would be better to keep our currently crappy coach because firing previously crappy coaches hasn't worked. Brilliant.

No, it hasn't been four years. It's been 3. And you can barely say that (Brew didn't have the time to recruit before signing day).

I'm ok with giving Brew the rest of this year. If the Gophs don't win every single game from here on out, I'll be expecting a change.

 

[Formo]

I understand Sid's position, and I don't necessarily disagree with much of what he's saying. And I'm not wholly opposed to giving Brew a fifth year, if we can see some signs of life or improvement over then next 8 conference games.

What's more troubling is that really, aside from starting out the 2008 season 7-1, there haven't been many flashes of what could be. Continuity IS important. Unfortunately Brewster's lack of understanding of that early in his tenure here probably will cost him the patience we might have otherwise had, if we had more continuity in the coordinator position.

This.

 

[anonymous]

I would be fine with continuity if the head coach was interested in the same.

Instead, the Gophers have been a spread team and then something in between and now a team that allegedly wants to run the ball.

If Brewster had a plan, had a philosophy and style of play he clearly believed in, then I would have more patience.

But the reality is that his inexperience as a decision-maker has shown over and over. He has never had to make decisions at this level. It probably isn't his fault he has a job he wasn't prepared for, but he isn't ready for this level and, as a result, needs to be replaced.

 

[NativeSon]

I saw the headline for Sid's column online and couldn't even click on it to read. But...after reading it here, I can't really find anything all that wrong with it...unlike most of his. I guess letting Brew finish out the year is probably best, but he's running out of excuses for bad losses. How many times can he say, "I didn't do a good enough job," like he said after the South Dakota game?

 

[imthewalrus]

The results of the Big Ten season will show everyone exactly what needs to be done. Our soon to be retiring prexy may be forced to make a move. These 8 big Ten games will be played one at a time. Each game's outcome will provide a clearer picture of the state of health of this program.

I would agree with anonymous that Brewster never appeard to know what it was that he wanted to do on offense, or on defense. He said he loved to recruit. I believed him about that every time he said it.

Win Big Ten games.

 

[GMan]

Sid is wrong

Sid says "Every one of these coaches had done a good job at his previous school."
Here are their D-I records before coming to Minnesota.

Coach - Prev D-I school(record) - MN Record
------------------------------------------------------------
Cal Stoll - Wake Forest(15-17) - 39-39
Joe Salem - None - 19-35-1
Lou Holtz - Arkansas(60-21-2) - 10-12
John Gutekunst - None - 29-37-2
Jim Wacker - TCU(40-58-2) - 16-39
Glen Mason - Kansas(47-54-1) - 64-57


Except for Holtz when did we bring a good coach here?

 

[Goldteam]

ferentz and alvarez run south dakota and northern illinois out of their stadiums in year 4

something like 45-3

PLEASE SID

 

[Schnoodler]

His point really is that there was a process for those programs. First it was suck, before it was great. I hope we're all smart enough to know that Sid isn't saying year four is magical, only that the results don't get gradually better. You're either good enough or your not, until you are you lose, once you are you win.

That doesn't mean that will happen under Brewster, only that sucking isn't necessarily a prediction of future outcomes.

 

[gold04]

I'm not opposed in getting rid of Brewster but more games need to be played out this year before they fire him. I still think this team is better than what people think. If by the end the season we are still terrible then fire Brewster. If the team plays well enough that it looks likes we may have a good team for next year then give him one more year.

 

[go4rob]

Sid is so far removed from reality, it's scary. I heard him say the same things in the Sports Huddle on Sunday morning, he also stated that JOE SALEM was one of the greatest coaches in U of M history.....that should tell you all you need to know about where Sid is at in his head.

 

[Paulie Star]

Sid really said Joe Salem was one of the greatest coaches? I was only 12 but I was at that greatest defeat of all time against Nebraska when Gophers lost 84 to 13. Maybe Sid meant that Joe Salem had the worst lost of all time history compared to Brewster.

But I have to agree that changing coaches just to change coaches is not the answer, if they do change out Brewster at the end of the year they need to replace him with an elite head coach or coordinator from an elite program they cannot settle for replacing Brewster with a MAC conference coach as we will be in the same place we are now with the current program under Brewster.

 

[tjgopher]

Sid's premise that firing coaches has been our problem is flawed. Look, schools fire coaches until they find the right one. They just do. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't fire Brewster, but to not fire him because of Sid's line of thinking is stupid. He used Wis and IA as examples. Let's analyze:

Wisconsin "pre-Alvarez" went through five mediocre to terrible coaches in 22 years (all but one had a sub-.500 record) until they found the right guy in Barry:

3 yrs - John Coatta (1967-1969 -- 3-26-1 record)
8 yrs - John Jardine (1970-77 -- 37-47-3 record)
8 yrs - Dave McClain (1978-85 -- 46-42-3 record)
1 yrs - Jim Hilles (1986 -- 3-9 record)
3 yrs - Don Morton (1987-89 -- 6-27 record)
16 yrs - Barry Alvarez (1990-2005 -- 118-73-4 record)

Iowa "pre-Fry" went through four terrible coaches in 18 years (all had sub-.400 records) until they found the right guy in Fry:

5 yrs - Jerry Burns (1961-65 -- 16-27-2 record)
5 yrs - Ray Nagel (1966-70 -- 16-32-1 record)
3 yrs - Frank Lauterbur (1971-73 -- 4-28-1 record)
5 yrs - Bob Cummings (1974-78 -- 18-37 record)
18 yrs - Hayden Fry (1979-98 -- 143-89-6)

By Sid's line of thinking, Wisconsin should have never let go of Don Morton and Iowa should have let Bob Cummings continue.

Minnesota has been through a lot of coaches. It is just taking us longer to find our guy than it took Wisconsin and Iowa to find their guy.

 

[TheSportsAce]

Although Sid's right in the Ferentz and Alvarez examples, these are just two coaches - and I would argue, examples of the few who have built sustained success. Outside of Holtz, the Gophers alone are exhibit A. But look around the Big Ten...Rich Rodriguez has struggled, although he hasn't been around as long as Brew. Ron Zook's Illini aren't a top-tier conference squad, but he did take them to the Rose Bowl in 2007. And Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern has shown some flashes since he came on in 2006, but hasn't really broken through yet. Whether or not they will build sustained success is debatable, but they're surely not at the Ferentz/Alvarez level at this point in time...and as such, they disprove Sid's argument. Still, I would put all of these men in front of Brew as coaches - their teams have at the very least shown signs of life, beating the teams they should beat, improving during the season and being somewhat competitive in conference. Plus, the Illini and Wildcats have played on January 1 within the last few years - a far cry from the Insight Bowl trips of one Coach Brew.

I'm not defending Brew here. I'm just saying that Sid's logic that Brew needs more time doesn't hold a lot of water based on two successful examples alone. By year four, you should have a pretty good idea of the kind of person and coach you have at the helm. And none of the above were trading coaches and offensive philosophies like baseball cards and losing badly at home to the likes of South Dakota and Northern Illinois in their fourth years.

 

[JackiO]

Any head coach would be a better option, since Brewster didn't have anything at all remotely close to it before he came here. He doesn't know what he is doing out there, and the players will say the exact same thing. I'm surprised they are even competitive on the field to be honest with you. The Alumni will get there way though in the end, as they always do, and he will be gone. Thank the lord.

 

[gophersmokes]

We already know Brewster's year 4 won't be like Alvarez's or Ferentz's. Also, I'd be interested to know where the programs were when they inherited them.

I keep hearing that Brewster has improved recruiting. If so, he hasn't been able to get much out of them.

They said about Bear Bryant, "he can take his'n and beat your'n, and then take your'n and beat his'n."

With Brewster, you might say, "he'll take his'n and lose to your'n, and then take your'n and lose to his'n."

 

[Wheaton]

Sid's premise that firing coaches has been our problem is flawed. Look, schools fire coaches until they find the right one. They just do. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't fire Brewster, but to not fire him because of Sid's line of thinking is stupid. He used Wis and IA as examples. Let's analyze:

Wisconsin "pre-Alvarez" went through five mediocre to terrible coaches in 22 years (all but one had a sub-.500 record) until they found the right guy in Barry:

3 yrs - John Coatta (1967-1969 -- 3-26-1 record)
8 yrs - John Jardine (1970-77 -- 37-47-3 record)
8 yrs - Dave McClain (1978-85 -- 46-42-3 record)
1 yrs - Jim Hilles (1986 -- 3-9 record)
3 yrs - Don Morton (1987-89 -- 6-27 record)
16 yrs - Barry Alvarez (1990-2005 -- 118-73-4 record)

Iowa "pre-Fry" went through four terrible coaches in 18 years (all had sub-.400 records) until they found the right guy in Fry:

5 yrs - Jerry Burns (1961-65 -- 16-27-2 record)
5 yrs - Ray Nagel (1966-70 -- 16-32-1 record)
3 yrs - Frank Lauterbur (1971-73 -- 4-28-1 record)
5 yrs - Bob Cummings (1974-78 -- 18-37 record)
18 yrs - Hayden Fry (1979-98 -- 143-89-6)

By Sid's line of thinking, Wisconsin should have never let go of Don Morton and Iowa should have let Bob Cummings continue.

Minnesota has been through a lot of coaches. It is just taking us longer to find our guy than it took Wisconsin and Iowa to find their guy.

BOX!. If you knew Sid personally I would love to hear him try to spin this little piece of info.

I cannot even consider giving Brewster one more year as our head coach. Give Brewster one more year and your going to get another year of being outcoached, and underachieving talent.

Isn't it a damning offense in itself that Brewster raves about these athletes he brings in and they are apparently underachieving? Brewster does not know how to utilize talent.

Consistency is key Sid, but what about consistency in the coordinators? It's Brewster's fault that Weber has been through so many offensive schemes.

If you give Brewster one more year it will be another mediocre non-conference schedule and another year of being beat by Wisconsin and Iowa. If you Fire Brewster chances are it will be more of the same, except we should actually see some real promise, not just the false claims we are getting better from the head coach.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

BOX!. If you knew Sid personally I would love to hear him try to spin this little piece of info.

I cannot even consider giving Brewster one more year as our head coach. Give Brewster one more year and your going to get another year of being outcoached, and underachieving talent.

Isn't it a damning offense in itself that Brewster raves about these athletes he brings in and they are apparently underachieving? Brewster does not know how to utilize talent.

Consistency is key Sid, but what about consistency in the coordinators? It's Brewster's fault that Weber has been through so many offensive schemes.

If you give Brewster one more year it will be another mediocre non-conference schedule and another year of being beat by Wisconsin and Iowa. If you Fire Brewster chances are it will be more of the same, except we should actually see some real promise, not just the false claims we are getting better from the head coach.

You mean some real promise like Brewster was spewing when he was hired? Or real promise after 40 some games?

My concern is that the talent is not playing up to the hype. Where is Carter? Cooper, Kirksey, Edwards are average at best. Hageman is a project and constantly learning new positions. Stoudamire is now a DB and Reeves doesn't have it. You really never know how good most players will be until after three years, maybe four years if systems change frequently.

It appears that most of the "talent" will need at least one more year to show better results.

 

[tbebell]

If you read interviews where Ferentz talks about his plan for success, it is the opposite of Brewster's approach. Ferentz repeats over and over that you develop your philosophy over the years of being mentored by other coaches. You must believe in that philosophy and stick to it. You must take your time in selecting assistants to make sure they are board withe the philosophy, and will that leads to continuity in the program.

Iowa has the same same OC and DC from day one of Ferentz's staff, and I can only think of six position coach changes going on twelve years. (Flaherty and Chuck Long left after year one, Bielema left after year three, Philbin left after year four, Aikins after about year eight, and Jackson retired a couple of years ago)

Ferentz will admit that about half way through his second year, he was starting to have his doubts, but he was going to stick with his plan, and we started to have some success the second half of the that second season.

We are no different than any other fan base, though. During our "down years" (if our big down year is 6-7 after a close bowl loss to defending national champion, TX, that ain't so bad), we had fans saying we needed new a new OC and DC, and maybe Ferentz was too inflexible, yada, yada, yada.

Anyway, my point is Sid's analogy is a bad one, and you guys need a new coach. One who brings something beyond just raw enthusiasm to the table.

 

[Wheaton]

If you read interviews where Ferentz talks about his plan for success, it is the opposite of Brewster's approach. Ferentz repeats over and over that you develop your philosophy over the years of being mentored by other coaches. You must believe in that philosophy and stick to it. You must take your time in selecting assistants to make sure they are board withe the philosophy, and will that leads to continuity in the program.

Iowa has the same same OC and DC from day one of Ferentz's staff, and I can only think of six position coach changes going on twelve years. (Flaherty and Chuck Long left after year one, Bielema left after year three, Philbin left after year four, Aikins after about year eight, and Jackson retired a couple of years ago)

Ferentz will admit that about half way through his second year, he was starting to have his doubts, but he was going to stick with his plan, and we started to have some success the second half of the that second season.

We are no different than any other fan base, though. During our "down years" (if our big down year is 6-7 after a close bowl loss to defending national champion, TX, that ain't so bad), we had fans saying we needed new a new OC and DC, and maybe Ferentz was too inflexible, yada, yada, yada.

Anyway, my point is Sid's analogy is a bad one, and you guys need a new coach. One who brings something beyond just raw enthusiasm to the table.

Great point. The only thing Brewster repeats is "Where doing things right." The guy obviously didn't have a offensive philosophy before taking the job. I guess who could blame him, he was a Tight Ends coach!

Brewster gets here and wants to run the Spread because Michigan was and he claimed it would be attractive for recruits. He then realized that teams who ran the ball in a pro-style (IE Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio State) were the successful teams in the Big Ten so he tries to shift over that way.

Other coaches stick to their guns, but Brewster has no guns to stick to. The Pistol formation is starting to get real popular in the NCAA. 100 bucks if it continues to grow and Brewster is still our coach we will see him start trying to add some plays out of that formation because he is full of these hairbrain schemes.

 

[Maroon]

Is anything he said wrong? I don't think so.

Context matters, and so does logical thought. He's using one set of facts from different situations that really don't have anything to do with Brewster's situation in a pathetic attempt to show that since those things happened in other cases, they will therefore happen in this case. He's been senile for a long time, so this is not surprising.

 

[jovs]

Maturi went with someone with no Head Coaching or Coordinator experience. He had no idea on what his preferred offensive and defensive schemes were. He had to learn on the job. Is that really his fault, I would have to say no. For that reason I am starting to think you have to give him another year and find out if some consistency will turn into wins. It probably won't be any worse than a coaching change, and who knows, it might turn out.

The administrations problem is that if attendance takes a nose dive they are in deep with the new stadium.

 

[13 Lined Ground Squirrel]

Barring an unforseen turnaround, Brewster should be let go if for no other reason than this seems like a potentially good year to be a BCS conference team in search of a proven coach. Some good names should be available and competition for their services should be limited.