Clem on Ben Johnson: "I feel for him. You can tell he's a motivated coach. He coaches hard. He just doesn't have enough players...it takes time."

[BleedGopher]

per Pat:

"I feel for him,'' Haskins said. "You can tell he's a motivated coach. He coaches hard. He just doesn't have enough players that are ready to win. It takes time.

"When we started, everybody in the Big Ten was better than us. He's in the same situation.''

Haskins was 43 in his first Gophers season and had five seasons as a head coach at Western Kentucky to draw on. Johnson was 40 and a career assistant when made a surprising hire by athletic director Mark Coyle in the spring of 2021.

“I would not change one thing, from a win-loss perceptive perspective, from my time with the Gophers. I learned more about myself the first two seasons than the last two.” Richard Coffey on Clem Haskins

One major problem Johnson faces that Clem didn't have in going from the bottom, to a Sweet Sixteen, to a final eight in his first four seasons: the transfer portal.

"I'd hate to be out there in it as a coach,'' Haskins said. "You get your guy as a freshman, he works, you coach, you pump yourself up that you've brought this team together, and a good player just leaves. That would kill me.

"What I put Willie [Burton] through, extra drills early in the morning, and what he did for us as a player, those games when he just carried us …

"If a player like Willie left, I don't know what a coach would do."

Clem Haskins recalls early years with Gophers, knows what Ben Johnson is feeling

Before building teams that went to the NCAA tournament, Haskins. 79, suffered loss after loss when he took over an overmatched Gophers team in the 1980s. Sound familiar?

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[Holy Man]

I didn't appreciate how young Clem was when he took over the Gophers. With his experience, I assumed he was a bit older.

At least he's willing to acknowledge that the world is different now.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Historically bad seasons create the strangest articles.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

FWIW - for some strange reason, I am listening to the Gopher Women's game radio feed.

MSU leading Gophers 17-7 after the 1st qtr. the Gophers made 2 of 16 FGA including 1-7 3-pt attempts.

so Gopher Men's fans........................things could be worse.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

At least he's willing to acknowledge that the world is different now.

Things aren't all that different. I'm tired of hearing the excuse that "things are different" so guys can blast the coach game-by-game in his first seasons.

The best way to build a team is still by recruiting & developing high school players like Clem did.

And by supplementing them with a transfer or 2...similar to supplementing them with a juco or 2 like Clem did.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

Historically bad seasons create the strangest articles.

What's so strange about what Clem did and what Richard Coffey says? Are you going to tell me things are different now...so we should be blasting Coach Johnson when his first recruits are still freshmen and his better recruits aren't even on the team yet?

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Things aren't all that different. I'm tired of hearing the excuse that "things are different" so guys can blast the coach game-by-game in his first seasons.

The best way to build a team is still by recruiting & developing high school players like Clem did.

And by supplementing them with a transfer or 2...similar to supplementing them with a juco or 2 like Clem did.

So clems says they are but you don’t think so. Ok. That was almost 40 years ago.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

What's so strange about what Clem did and what Richard Coffey says? Are you going to tell me things are different now...so we should be blasting Coach Johnson when his first recruits are still freshmen and his better recruits aren't even on the team yet?

Nope. Except these specific articles exist because Ben’s results stink.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Clem saying good things about Johnson sounds a little like Bardo working hard to say nice things about the Gophers in tonight's broadcast.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

So clems says they are but you don’t think so. Ok. That was almost 40 years ago.

Clem says Ben is in the same situation as he was.

When asked "What do you think about the unlimited player movement of the new transfer portal?"....Clem said he'd have been devastated if he developed a guy like Burton and then he transferred. But NO WAY would that have happened. Burton loved Clem.

Until this happens to Ben...I say things aren't so different.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

Do you guys really want a mercenary coach who bribes disgruntled transfers in for 1-year immediate winning? And then has to do it all again the next year.

I'd rather have a moral coach with integrity and work-ethic who takes his lumps in the beginning...but slowly builds up a program that speaks for itself despite the critics.

If it doesn't work for some reason...at least I didn't advocate for sleaze or shortcuts.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Clem is being very generous to Ben here. Comparing resumes between the two at the respective points in their careers when they got the Minnesota job…there is no comparison (I think DPo did an excellent summary of the vast differences in a different thread). Clem was everything as a coach and former player (that is, a winner) that Ben isn’t and very likely never will be, so to try to match their trajectories just because both struggled mightily in their first two years is a fool’s errand.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Clem is being very generous to Ben here. Comparing resumes between the two at the respective points in their careers when they got the Minnesota job…there is no comparison (I think DPo did an excellent summary of the vast differences in a different thread). Clem was everything as a coach and former player (that is, a winner) that Ben isn’t and very likely never will be, so to try to match their trajectories just because both struggled mightily in their first two years is a fool’s errand.

Ben is not a loser cause his teams didn’t win in the top 1% of college basketball. He may not be an elite 1% head coach (required to be successful in the B1G) but he’s not a loser. Don’t be ridiculous

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Ben is not a loser cause his teams didn’t win in the top 1% of college basketball. He may not be an elite 1% head coach (required to be successful in the B1G) but he’s not a loser. Don’t be ridiculous

I did a pretty thorough breakdown in another thread. Maybe someone can post it. I have no idea how to find it. Ben hasn’t been around winning at all as a college player or coach. Many many abysmal seasons. He went to Xavier and they sucked those years. He coached with Richard Pitino who got fired for losing too much at Minnesota. The teams he played on in college were really bad.

Can he turn it around? Sure. But what blueprint does he follow? He’s never seen it up close and he doesn’t know what NOT to do as a head coach because he hasn’t been a head coach. It’s not ideal to learn on the job in the B1G.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

What's so strange about what Clem did and what Richard Coffey says? Are you going to tell me things are different now...so we should be blasting Coach Johnson when his first recruits are still freshmen and his better recruits aren't even on the team yet?

His first recruits have graduated, their sophomores, and juniors.

As far as his first HS recruits, they're both sophomores.

But yes, we should keep bashing any team that is historically bad.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

His first recruits have graduated, their sophomores, and juniors.

As far as his first HS recruits, they're both sophomores.

But yes, we should keep bashing any team that is historically bad.

Before the Maryland game the average score for the Gophers in conference was 74.9 (13th in opponents points per game) to 61.5 (14th in points scored per game). So on average they lose by 13.4. In Ben’s first year it was 7.6ppg

In Pitino’s worst conference record season, it was 9.2ppg. I do think he had a worst conference scoring margin at some point buttttt I’ve been drinking a beer per inch of snowfall forecasted and I’m not looking it up.

Just some facts.

 

[forever a gopher]

I'd rather have a moral coach with integrity and work-ethic who takes his lumps in the beginning...but slowly builds up a program that speaks for itself despite the critics.

“Takes his lumps”? Those lumps have produced the worst KenPom ranking of any B1G team in the past 19 years and the worst 1-year AND 2-year stretch from a record perspective in the history of Gopher basketball. But yeah, they’re just “lumps”, and just part of a master plan.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I did a pretty thorough breakdown in another thread. Maybe someone can post it. I have no idea how to find it. Ben hasn’t been around winning at all as a college player or coach. Many many abysmal seasons. He went to Xavier and they sucked those years. He coached with Richard Pitino who got fired for losing too much at Minnesota. The teams he played on in college were really bad.

I know his background better than most. I played against him in high school, watched him in college, and got to meet him coaching. I understand the the teams he was apart of. This was discussed all the time when he was hired and why he isn’t qualified to be the choice. It still doesn’t make him a “loser”. He was a solid high major D1 basketball player. He’s been well thought of as an assistant at every place he’s been. He hasn’t been successful as the head coach here. The percentage of people who could/will be is extremely small (1% of an already elite group).

Can he turn it around? Sure. But what blueprint does he follow? He’s never seen it up close and he doesn’t know what NOT to do as a head coach because he hasn’t been a head coach. It’s not ideal to learn on the job in the B1G.

Not all businessman need to work for a Fortune 500 to create their own. I don’t disagree that it’s typically easier to be successful from learning “what to do” vs “what not to do” and maybe it’s a bigger issue than I’m giving it credit for. Maybe Ben should’ve stayed with Miles vs coming back to MN under Richard and then he’d be more qualified like Craig Smith or Smiths former assistant who’s now the SDSU coach. We will just have to see, but obviously the turnaround is going to be harder the more we lose. Hopefully he gets a year of reasonable health from his roster and then all the rest of the excuses will be eliminated

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Ben is not a loser cause his teams didn’t win in the top 1% of college basketball. He may not be an elite 1% head coach (required to be successful in the B1G) but he’s not a loser. Don’t be ridiculous

You’re right he’s not a loser. He’s intensely mediocre.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

I know his background better than most. I played against him in high school, watched him in college, and got to meet him coaching. I understand the the teams he was apart of. This was discussed all the time when he was hired and why he isn’t qualified to be the choice. It still doesn’t make him a “loser”. He was a solid high major D1 basketball player. He’s been well thought of as an assistant at every place he’s been. He hasn’t been successful as the head coach here. The percentage of people who could/will be is extremely small (1% of an already elite group).

Not all businessman need to work for a Fortune 500 to create their own. I don’t disagree that it’s typically easier to be successful from learning “what to do” vs “what not to do” and maybe it’s a bigger issue than I’m giving it credit for. Maybe Ben should’ve stayed with Miles vs coming back to MN under Richard and then he’d be more qualified like Craig Smith or Smiths former assistant who’s now the SDSU coach. We will just have to see, but obviously the turnaround is going to be harder the more we lose. Hopefully he gets a year of reasonable health from his roster and then all the rest of the excuses will be eliminated

That’s great you know him. He’s a good dude. I have no issue with him as a person. I don’t think I’ve seen a negative post about him as a person. Being well thought of and losing a lot is not good. There is no way to justify the hire based on resume.

Even with a healthy roster he lost badly to an Illinois team missing their best player. He’s worth much more than the ghosts of Ihnen and Fox. It’s been 25 games. Injuries have sucked but the team has been miserable.

 

[bc2211]

I know his background better than most. I played against him in high school, watched him in college, and got to meet him coaching. I understand the the teams he was apart of. This was discussed all the time when he was hired and why he isn’t qualified to be the choice. It still doesn’t make him a “loser”. He was a solid high major D1 basketball player. He’s been well thought of as an assistant at every place he’s been. He hasn’t been successful as the head coach here. The percentage of people who could/will be is extremely small (1% of an already elite group).

Not all businessman need to work for a Fortune 500 to create their own. I don’t disagree that it’s typically easier to be successful from learning “what to do” vs “what not to do” and maybe it’s a bigger issue than I’m giving it credit for. Maybe Ben should’ve stayed with Miles vs coming back to MN under Richard and then he’d be more qualified like Craig Smith or Smiths former assistant who’s now the SDSU coach. We will just have to see, but obviously the turnaround is going to be harder the more we lose. Hopefully he gets a year of reasonable health from his roster and then all the rest of the excuses will be eliminated

No one else in this thread has used the word “loser”. Just a few people pointing out that he has not won. As documented elsewhere, his stint at Northern Iowa is the only collegiate success he’s been a part of.

 

[Gopherfan84]

That’s great you know him. He’s a good dude. I have no issue with him as a person. I don’t think I’ve seen a negative post about him as a person. Being well thought of and losing a lot is not good. There is no way to justify the hire based on resume.

Even with a healthy roster he lost badly to an Illinois team missing their best player. He’s worth much more than the ghosts of Ihnen and Fox. It’s been 25 games. Injuries have sucked but the team has been miserable.

The only reason I bring up meeting him in the basketball world is more to point out he’s not a clown as a coach like some say. I’m tired of talking about him being qualified/not being qualified for the hire. Again go look at my posts when he was hired. I was pissed because of qualifications. I also am not in enough power to have any control of the hire.

I am happy with what Ben has tried to do and not taking shortcuts. I like the idea of length on the perimeter in a gap defensive system. I like that he’s recruiting harder than any of our last 3 head coaches too.

He is obviously not winning as a head basketball coach here. To be honest no one wins here unless they cheat. This team is not good and no one can argue against that (although some do try lol). The injuries also hurt the development of team. With a healthier roster they still aren’t good this year but we could’ve had a chance to see more or no development and make a better assessment imo. That’s why I bring it up and the only reason.

 

[Gopherfan84]

No one else in this thread has used the word “loser”. Just a few people pointing out that he has not won. As documented elsewhere, his stint at Northern Iowa is the only collegiate success he’s been a part of.

Go read the original post. He worded it in a way that he was calling him one. He changed and said mediocre in a response.

He also was part of Miles first year at Nebraska with Craig Smith on staff too. If you look at building and the model he’s following, that’s where you look. Miles tears down and rebuilds. As far as his qualifications, no one here is arguing he was qualified. Again go look what I posted when it was announced. I wasn’t happy.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

The only reason I bring up meeting him in the basketball world is more to point out he’s not a clown as a coach like some say. I’m tired of talking about him being qualified/not being qualified for the hire. Again go look at my posts when he was hired. I was pissed because of qualifications. I also am not in enough power to have any control of the hire.

I am happy with what Ben has tried to do and not taking shortcuts. I like the idea of length on the perimeter in a gap defensive system. I like that he’s recruiting harder than any of our last 3 head coaches too.

He is obviously not winning as a head basketball coach here. To be honest no one wins here unless they cheat. This team is not good and no one can argue against that (although some do try lol). The injuries also hurt the development of team. With a healthier roster they still aren’t good this year but we could’ve had a chance to see more or no development and make a better assessment imo. That’s why I bring it up and the only reason.

All fair points and I agree with most. I don’t think he is a clown coach. I don’t think he should be a head coach at a P6 school. I don’t think losing like this is acceptable. Historically bad seasons. They aren’t competitive. Even in Pitino’s worst seasons their margin of loss was significantly closer.

Ben has next year to turn it around. If it’s another 0-5 win big ten season—I think it’s over even if he keeps his job. Fan base is shrinking already. There is no excuse to be horrendous next season. Show progress. If a bunch of guys leave—that’s on him. He’s played guys a ton of minutes so that can’t be the excuse for them leaving. An exodus would put him on Whalen’s trajectory.

 

[mngolf]

So clems says they are but you don’t think so. Ok. That was almost 40 years ago.

And I'd say that things are about as different as possible. Hence Clem's take on it.

 

[Gopherfan84]

All fair points and I agree with most. I don’t think he is a clown coach. I don’t think he should be a head coach at a P6 school. I don’t think losing like this is acceptable. Historically bad seasons. They aren’t competitive. Even in Pitino’s worst seasons their margin of loss was significantly closer.

That’s a fair and reasonable assessment. Many others don’t do that.

Ben has next year to turn it around. If it’s another 0-5 win big ten season—I think it’s over even if he keeps his job. Fan base is shrinking already. There is no excuse to be horrendous next season. Show progress. If a bunch of guys leave—that’s on him. He’s played guys a ton of minutes so that can’t be the excuse for them leaving. An exodus would put him on Whalen’s trajectory.

I agree with everything here. Next year is make or break for me as well. I don’t think it will be for Coyle. I don’t think the shrinking fan base can shrink much more (ducking from GWG and others who get mad when I say this). The ones we lose will be replaced by new alums. It’s really already very bleak imo.

 

[BarnBurner]

Ben is not a loser cause his teams didn’t win in the top 1% of college basketball. He may not be an elite 1% head coach (required to be successful in the B1G) but he’s not a loser. Don’t be ridiculous

Expanded cbj wingspan protection

 

[Bad Gopher]

The only reason I bring up meeting him in the basketball world is more to point out he’s not a clown as a coach like some say. I’m tired of talking about him being qualified/not being qualified for the hire. Again go look at my posts when he was hired. I was pissed because of qualifications. I also am not in enough power to have any control of the hire.

I am happy with what Ben has tried to do and not taking shortcuts. I like the idea of length on the perimeter in a gap defensive system. I like that he’s recruiting harder than any of our last 3 head coaches too.

He is obviously not winning as a head basketball coach here. To be honest no one wins here unless they cheat. This team is not good and no one can argue against that (although some do try lol). The injuries also hurt the development of team. With a healthier roster they still aren’t good this year but we could’ve had a chance to see more or no development and make a better assessment imo. That’s why I bring it up and the only reason.

The various threads on this general topic, including this post, gradually meander down the slippery slope toward "Minnesota can't compete in the Big Ten." I don't accept that. If it's true, however, then what are we doing in the Big Ten? That's a serious question. The truth--and I think many of you suspect this--is that we wouldn't be any more successful in the Summit as we've been in our Power 6 conference, as we wouldn't have access to the same caliber of recruit. Regardless of level, any program needs to out-compete its peers. You're either competent enough to do that, or you're not. The playing field is level enough that any school--even traditional doormats like Wisconsin and Northwestern and hayseed backwaters in Iowa City--can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and have success. Excuses are for people who aren't good enough at what they do.

 

[BarnBurner]

That’s a fair and reasonable assessment. Many others don’t do that.

I agree with everything here. Next year is make or break for me as well. I don’t think it will be for Coyle. I don’t think the shrinking fan base can shrink much more (ducking from GWG and others who get mad when I say this). The ones we lose will be replaced by new alums. It’s really already very bleak imo.

99% of fans here dont think and have not stated CBJ is a clown. Hasn't happened.

Unqualified? Over his head? Learning on the job? For sure.

There is a difference.

 

[Gopherfan84]

The various threads on this general topic, including this post, gradually meander down the slippery slope toward "Minnesota can't compete in the Big Ten." I don't accept that. If it's true, however, then what are we doing in the Big Ten? That's a serious question. The truth--and I think many of you suspect this--is that we wouldn't be any more successful in the Summit as we've been in our Power 6 conference, as we wouldn't have access to the same caliber of recruit. Regardless of level, any program needs to out-compete its peers. You're either competent enough to do that, or you're not. The playing field is level enough that any school--even traditional doormats like Wisconsin and Northwestern and hayseed backwaters in Iowa City--can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and have success. Excuses are for people who aren't good enough at what they do.

Don’t accept what you don’t want to. I never said you couldn’t win here. Just said that the only ones who did got fired for cheating. Outcompeting your peers is correct, but we aren’t all at the same playing field resources wise. Again, doesn’t mean it can’t be done here, but it’s not as easy I think some think it is