"If you look at Tubby Smith, there is absolutely no reason that he should've been fired." Interview w/ Kendal Shell

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MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
Wasn't there speculation that Saul's DWI contributed to Tubby's firing?
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Never heard that. Maybe a ruse to lead in to dismissal.

Not convinced it wasn’t the right decision. Recruiting fell off considerably. Teams consistently were worse at the end of the season than the beginning. The blunder was hiring an unproven coach. Of course, they would not do that again, would they?
 

Tubby's firing was really weird. I would have supported firing him after back-to-back 6-12 seasons. Doing it after making the second round of the tournament was bizarre. A lot of ink has been spilled on this page about Pitino not being near the top of Teague's list. Perhaps potential hires thought to themselves "so, if I show up and take this program to three tourneys in six years, I still might get fired after winning a tournament game if too many fans think my facial expressions appear disinterested on the sideline? No thanks!"
 



MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
Wasn't there speculation that Saul's DWI contributed to Tubby's firing?
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Never heard that. IIRC that happened a year or two before he was fired. I don't think it had anything to do with it. Norwood wanted "his guy" and to prove his great basketball connections. He whiffed, but that's a separate issue.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Tubby's firing was really weird. I would have supported firing him after back-to-back 6-12 seasons. Doing it after making the second round of the tournament was bizarre. A lot of ink has been spilled on this page about Pitino not being near the top of Teague's list. Perhaps potential hires thought to themselves "so, if I show up and take this program to three tourneys in six years, I still might get fired after winning a tournament game if too many fans think my facial expressions appear disinterested on the sideline? No thanks!"
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That team wasn't great and looked DOA in mid-February. I think the decision was made then and they weren't going to backtrack just because we beat #1 Indiana and eeked out a tournament bid. I was 50/50 on it at the time. It was obvious the recruiting was trending in the wrong direction and Tubby's tenure had peaked. But as you say, not many coaches get fired after making the 2nd round of the NCAA's.
 

howeda7 said:
Never heard that. IIRC that happened a year or two before he was fired. I don't think it had anything to do with it. Norwood wanted "his guy" and to prove his great basketball connections. He whiffed, but that's a separate issue.
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It happened during Tubby's last season. You're probably right on Teague though.
 




Ope3 said:
Umm...Kendal Shell, "former Gophers standout"?!?!
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Best saxophone player on the team! The King of Webster Groves!

Sadly, Tubby's best teams were in November and December. Then they just stumbled or regressed through the rest of the season. No movement on offense, but solid defense. It was time for Tubby to go on his way. He kept looking elsewhere all the time he was here.
 

MennoSota said:
Best saxophone player on the team! The King of Webster Groves!

Sadly, Tubby's best teams were in November and December. Then they just stumbled or regressed through the rest of the season. No movement on offense, but solid defense. It was time for Tubby to go on his way. He kept looking elsewhere all the time he was here.
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He had a lot of bad luck (seems common to MN sports though). A LOT of bad luck. Tubby’s biggest problem was that he seemed unemotional the final couple of seasons, and his recruiting showed it. He was let go at or near the correct time.

Tubby also coached one of the most boring, ineffective offenses I’ve ever seen and kept coaching defense of the paint long into the age of the 3-pointer. As displayed by his struggles at places after the U, Tubby’s best was behind him. Personally, it seemed to me that he lost his will with the Royce White debacle. But that’s only my biased opinion.
 

I'm all for the argument that Tubby's time here was not good enough to keep him. But we should keep our standards, and that means current at future coaches should also be held to the standard that only making the tournament 50% of the time and only advancing to the round of 32 is inadequate.
 




howeda7 said:
That team wasn't great and looked DOA in mid-February. I think the decision was made then and they weren't going to backtrack just because we beat #1 Indiana and eeked out a tournament bid. I was 50/50 on it at the time. It was obvious the recruiting was trending in the wrong direction and Tubby's tenure had peaked. But as you say, not many coaches get fired after making the 2nd round of the NCAA's.
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Most likely correct. He kind of had quit recruiting and was frustrated about the lack of a practice facility. His staff was in well with the Ellingsons. Probably keep Wally and in turn get Henry. Would’ve been interesting to see what he did for a PG. Pitino got Matthieu who did a nice job.
 

cncmin said:
He had a lot of bad luck (seems common to MN sports though). A LOT of bad luck. Tubby’s biggest problem was that he seemed unemotional the final couple of seasons, and his recruiting showed it. He was let go at or near the correct time.
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Totally agree. He seemed burned out. His relationship with the coaches association in the state was shot too. He stopped doing team camps in the summer.
cncmin said:
Tubby also coached one of the most boring, ineffective offenses I’ve ever seen and kept coaching defense of the paint long into the age of the 3-pointer. As displayed by his struggles at places after the U, Tubby’s best was behind him. Personally, it seemed to me that he lost his will with the Royce White debacle. But that’s only my biased opinion.
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Between the not being allowed hiring of Jimmy Williams, Royce/Trevor suspensions, and no progress on a practice facility he was done. His offensives were very generic. He was a good example of how defending teams well can at least make you stay out of the cellar.
 

As far as his point that fans shouldn't express dissatisfaction with their coach: In a situation like we're in, there comes a point where the fans start to get blamed, and I think we might be there. In reality, though, we pay these people's salaries.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I'm all for the argument that Tubby's time here was not good enough to keep him. But we should keep our standards, and that means current at future coaches should also be held to the standard that only making the tournament 50% of the time and only advancing to the round of 32 is inadequate.
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True. We have had big problems with ADs here- which maybe points higher at the U to the President and Board. Teague was a great fundraiser and a lousy AD. Coyle is a hard working AD who can't raise funds. Worse the decision on Ben went to Gabel, who didn't have winning in mind.
 

Bad Gopher said:
As far as his point that fans shouldn't express dissatisfaction with their coach: In a situation like we're in, there comes a point where the fans start to get blamed, and I think we might be there. In reality, though, we pay these people's salaries.
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Yup, some of us more than others.......and the product has been so mediocre for so long. Your post from a couple weeks ago summed it up best for me. We have had two NCAA wins in 25 years. That's unbelievable when you consider how many teams make the tournament each year.
 



Tubby was just putting the time in to give Saul a job.
Tubby was made redundant at KY for lack of interest and perhaps because he was Black.
He and his wife were far more interested in their missions to Africa.
When he should have been let go the ace AD extended him and Mason so the money cupboard was bare from buyouts when they were fired and it came to hire new coaches.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Perhaps potential hires thought to themselves "so, if I show up and take this program to three tourneys in six years, I still might get fired after winning a tournament game if too many fans think my facial expressions appear disinterested on the sideline? No thanks!"
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I suspect that was the case for some potential candidates. To compound that, the U probably wasn't offering Tubby's level of compensation to potential replacements. The environment should look better now and in the near future to potential candidates given that Pitino was given 8 years and Ben may get a minimum of 4 years.
 

This is easy opinion for Shell to try out while we are dead, after two bad hires since Tubby was fired.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I'm all for the argument that Tubby's time here was not good enough to keep him. But we should keep our standards, and that means current at future coaches should also be held to the standard that only making the tournament 50% of the time and only advancing to the round of 32 is inadequate.
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The new standard is the wingspan of your tallest recruit.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
But we should keep our standards, and that means current at future coaches should also be held to the standard that only making the tournament 50% of the time and only advancing to the round of 32 is inadequate.
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Well, you have to remember something: this school has demonstrated that, when it comes to basketball coaches, it does not have the deep pockets, nor the will to spend those large sums, like Nebraska does in football and Indiana does in basketball. Look at Coyle's reluctance to make a statement about Pitino's departure until he already accepted the New Mexico job so that he could minimize an already meager buyout. Archie Miller was dismissed with prejudice by Indiana after 4 years with only one losing one and received a $10.3 million buyout. Nebraska fired Riley after 3 years with a payout, fired hometown hero Frost after 4 years and 3 games with a bigger payout, and then gave Rhule a fat seven year contract. When it comes to basketball, you're not going to see those kinds of "standards" here in the near future.

It's foolish to talk about "standards" in the abstract. I suspect any basketball coach in the near future who has Tubby's six year record here will be in absolutely no danger of being fired.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
The administration had plenty of blame too...but by the time Tubby was fired, our recruiting was the worst in Gopher history. He was scanning the local community colleges for players. He had to go.
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He had a couple of bad years but Tubby's lousy recruits supplemented by a few of Pitino's key transfers enabled Pitino to win 25 games and an NIT championship in his first season.
 

cjbfbp said:
It's foolish to talk about "standards" in the abstract. I suspect any basketball coach in the near future who has Tubby's six year record here will be in absolutely no danger of being fired.
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Wasn't Pitino just fired for having a pretty similar record in terms of NCAA appearances, wins and Big 10 standings?

Overall, not a lot of difference in my opinion. Pitino has a higher peak (got BTT bye in 2017), but a deeper low.
 

Ope3 said:
Wasn't Pitino just fired for having a pretty similar record in terms of NCAA appearances, wins and Big 10 standings?

Overall, not a lot of difference in my opinion. Pitino has a higher peak (got BTT bye in 2017), but a deeper low.
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I don't know how anyone could say that (well I do; they don't evaluate the overall record). Tubby never had a losing season in 6 years and had 5 post-season appearances in 6 years. Pitino had four outright losing seasons and only 3 postseason appearances in 8 years. Pitino had one year where the Big Ten conference record was better than any of Tubby's but he also had perhaps the worst season in the university's history (although it might be equaled this year).
 

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