House of Pain - Penn St 1999

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gophmeister

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The espn series of articles lists Penn St's most painful loss as being against us. It seems to me the meaning of the '99 victory has lost significance among gopher fans or at least the euphoria is gone. If someone were to say '77, '86, and '05 in succession we would immediately think Little Brown Jug. We'd get a little nostalgic at the mere mention of those games. Does that mean the rivalry against Michigan is still strong? Still, Penn St is Penn St. Did '99 lose it's luster because Penn St fell on hard times after that and we expected to beat them or was it the short history of games. Personally, I will never forget that game, I was at Champs on West 7th and there was a table of MSU fans next to us. I think they were losing that day and they looked appalled that Minnesota was playing PSU tough. When Nystrom kicked the winning field goal we just exploded(MSU fans looked even more disdainful). After almost a whole decade of misery it felt so good to finally win one. Before that, I thought we were doomed to forever occupy the cellar. It was a good day, how can we not feel proud about beating the #2 team in their own stadium?
 

I love to find the picture of Ryan Roth number 66 back bowed blocking two players one Courtney Brown and over the top Lavare Arrington. Nystrom was a benefactor of Rackley the snapper and Rindles the holder who had been together for a couple years.
 

auric@heart said:
I love to find the picture of Ryan Roth number 66 back bowed blocking two players one Courtney Brown and over the top Lavare Arrington. Nyston was a benefactor of Rackley the snapper and Rindles the holder who had been together for a couple years.
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I still have my 2000 Gopher football poster framed. It has a terrific shot of Nystrom booting the ball with Roth blocking the players. Definitely the best poster that they've ever put out.

I don't think any MN fan will "forget" that game soon. For those of us fans under the age of 35 that is the greatest victory of our generation.
 

It hasn't lost any significance on me. I watch the game every November 6th (or close to). To have a bounce of the football actually go our way given some of the games in the last 10 years is priceless to watch,
 

A picture is worth a thousand words...
OEHEFEZPNLLWAXU.20060628194908.jpg
 


DarrenTheGreek said:
I still have my 2000 Gopher football poster framed. It has a terrific shot of Nystrom booting the ball with Roth blocking the players. Definitely the best poster that they've ever put out.

I don't think any MN fan will "forget" that game soon. For those of us fans under the age of 35 that is the greatest victory of our generation.
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I too have that poster framed.
 



Which is your favorite kicker moment/image?

1999 Dan Nystrom
2003 Rhys Lloyd
2005 Jason Giannini
 

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We won a number of games like that. At OSU was outstanding as well. At the Big House with the Gary Russel run. These wins have been buried in the need of some to justify the coaching change. If we used to win big, big games and no longer win any, what did we do? So all the wins have been lost under all the hard losses.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
We won a number of games like that. At OSU was outstanding as well. At the Big House with the Gary Russel run. These wins have been buried in the need of some to justify the coaching change. If we used to win big, big games and no longer win any, what did we do? So all the wins have been lost under all the hard losses.
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Whoa, watch your step - you just took an enormous leap.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
We won a number of games like that. At OSU was outstanding as well. At the Big House with the Gary Russel run. These wins have been buried in the need of some to justify the coaching change. If we used to win big, big games and no longer win any, what did we do? So all the wins have been lost under all the hard losses.
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LOL, is that you Glen Mason?

Look, yes, we have some very good wins under Mason, as you mentioned. But those began to come more and more infrequent the longer his tenure went. The Gary Russell game, MIchigan was a 7 win team that year, not bad, but nothing earth shattering.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
We won a number of games like that. At OSU was outstanding as well. At the Big House with the Gary Russel run. These wins have been buried in the need of some to justify the coaching change. If we used to win big, big games and no longer win any, what did we do? So all the wins have been lost under all the hard losses.
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Well, what's done is done. Maybe Brewster reaches daylight this fall. Brews a Mac Brown disciple and Brown had terrible records at Tulane and North Carolina (1-10 his first two years and finally in year 5 8-3). Even at Texas it took years for him to get them where they are now. If you read Brown's wikipedia page it seems eerily familiar. Brown couldn't win big games at UNC or at Texas in the beginning. Now the stars have aligned for him. Before anyone gets upset, I'm not suggesting Brewster will be successful; I'm just making an observation. I think the general long-term framework of the Brewster plan is to recruit, recruit, recruit, stay positive and hope the wins come. Mason's philosophy was take lemons and make lemonade. It got us to the middle of the pack with the occasional upset here and there. The problem for Mase was he never was able to capitalize on it. Then Mike Leach and TTech humility us and he was gone.
 



MrGopher said:
Which is your favorite kicker moment/image?

1999 Dan Nystrom
2003 Rhys Lloyd
2005 Jason Giannini
Click to expand...

While there isn't a great photo for that game, Rhys Lloyd 2003 Sun Bowl kick was a great moment.
 

Monty519 said:
LOL, is that you Glen Mason?

Look, yes, we have some very good wins under Mason, as you mentioned. But those began to come more and more infrequent the longer his tenure went. The Gary Russell game, MIchigan was a 7 win team that year, not bad, but nothing earth shattering.
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Just for the record Monty, in those last four years under M we won 15 Big Ten games and lost 17. Thus, this year, in order to even match that terrible record we need to win 9 Big Ten games and lose 1. Is that fair?
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Just for the record Monty, in those last four years under M we won 15 Big Ten games and lost 17. Thus, this year, in order to even match that terrible record we need to win 9 Big Ten games and lose 1. Is that fair?
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Hold on - for years, I argued against people who ripped Glen because of his bad overall Big Ten record by pointing out that if you remove his first couple of years, his record looks a lot better. Any new coach will go through a period of transition and you shouldn't judge him based on underachieving for the first year or two. I'm guessing that you would have agreed with taking that attitude because you seem to be a Mason fan. If you give Brewster the same courtesy, he's 3-5 in the Big Ten. Not anything great (and worse than Mason's third year record of 5-3) but that 0-8 year really throws his record into the toilet.

Mason's first three years: 8-16, .333
Brewster's first three years: 6-18, .250

Yes, Mason's record is better for those first three years, but it's hardly night and day, so if you think that Brewster is doing a terrible job at this point in his tenure because of his win/loss record, you'd have to agree that Mason was pretty awful too.

And for the record, I'm not anti-Mason or anti-Brewster...
 


2727Gopher said:
Hold on - for years, I argued against people who ripped Glen because of his bad overall Big Ten record by pointing out that if you remove his first couple of years, his record looks a lot better. Any new coach will go through a period of transition and you shouldn't judge him based on underachieving for the first year or two. I'm guessing that you would have agreed with taking that attitude because you seem to be a Mason fan. If you give Brewster the same courtesy, he's 3-5 in the Big Ten. Not anything great (and worse than Mason's third year record of 5-3) but that 0-8 year really throws his record into the toilet.

Mason's first three years: 8-16, .333
Brewster's first three years: 6-18, .250

Yes, Mason's record is better for those first three years, but it's hardly night and day, so if you think that Brewster is doing a terrible job at this point in his tenure because of his win/loss record, you'd have to agree that Mason was pretty awful too.

And for the record, I'm not anti-Mason or anti-Brewster...
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Again, just for the record, the current coach took over a 15-17 Big Ten program and has, in fact, turned it into the current 5-18. The previous coach took over a 6-26 Big Ten team and turned it into a 8-16 program. But, all of that is history. I would much prefer that the current coach starts to win some additional games before the first snowflakes start to fall. That would seem to be a reasonable expectation for a fourth year coach who took over a 15-17 program. Right?
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Again, just for the record, the current coach took over a 15-17 Big Ten program and has, in fact, turned it into the current 5-18. The previous coach took over a 6-26 Big Ten team and turned it into a 8-16 program. But, all of that is history. I would much prefer that the current coach starts to win some additional games before the first snowflakes start to fall. That would seem to be a reasonable expectation for a fourth year coach who took over a 15-17 program. Right?
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The current coach took over a team coming off a 3-5 Big Ten season, which didn't beat a single team with a winning record, got dominated by a Division I-AA team (although they lucked out and won the game), and blew a 31 point lead midway through the 3rd quarter in its last game. Mason's recruiting had been awful his last few years and that the talent level on the team was on a severe downslide.

Brewster's first recruits are juniors and redshirt sophomores this year. This is really the first year that we can start to evaluate his impact on recruiting.
 

Not to get into another Mason v. Brewster dispute, but you really can not count Brewster's first year when comparing records. When Brewster took over the program the cupboard was bare of players and play makers. (This is not meant to be slam on Mason, but it is the truth.) Brewster has been on a mission to rebuild this roster and it is only now that his recruiting is starting to bear fruit. If we do not see improvement over the next two years then a strong argument can be made about Brewster's coaching abilities or lack thereof. But, IMO, it is still to early to come to any conclusions about Brewster's coaching abilities.
 

This year is too early? If a coach takes over a team that won its last three league games and goes 0-8, is that not coaching? If he installs all new systems, goes 0-8, and then changes systems again, is that not coaching? I guess I do not understand the idea that you can not evaluate a coach even by the end of year four. 8-24 will "OK enough"? 0-14 in rivalry games will be "OK enough"? Very weird (to me).
 

I was in about row six.

And could hear the ball kicked!
 

Gopherhurrin said:
This year is too early? If a coach takes over a team that won its last three league games and goes 0-8, is that not coaching? If he installs all new systems, goes 0-8, and then changes systems again, is that not coaching? I guess I do not understand the idea that you can not evaluate a coach even by the end of year four. 8-24 will "OK enough"? 0-14 in rivalry games will be "OK enough"? Very weird (to me).
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Ummmm... I didn't say that the end of the fourth year is too soon to evaluate him. I said that this is the first year that he can be honestly evaluated for his performance. And yes, Mason won his last three league games against three teams that combined for a 6-18 Big Ten record that season.

And I'm going to stop debating you on this. I like Glen Mason and appreciate what he did to bring this program from the bottom of the heap to the middle of the heap.
 

Gopherhurrin seems to be the next incarnate of wrendahl.

I can appreciate a lot of what Mason accomplished here but it was time for him to go. Brewster might not ultimately be the answer but he still deserves time.
 

"Brewster might not ultimately be the answer but he still deserves time. " I thought that was what this was.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
This year is too early? If a coach takes over a team that won its last three league games and goes 0-8, is that not coaching? If he installs all new systems, goes 0-8, and then changes systems again, is that not coaching? I guess I do not understand the idea that you can not evaluate a coach even by the end of year four. 8-24 will "OK enough"? 0-14 in rivalry games will be "OK enough"? Very weird (to me).
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i am a teacher and a coach in a 3a school near the metro. i coach basketball but i am close to the football coaches and i have heard the stories of mason refusing to go to recruits. if many minnesota kids wanted to go to the U they were told they had to go to mason. meanwhile, alvarez and coach hogeye would drive hours to sway our kids. masons coaching did little to upset me. even if we could rush for 400 yards in a game, then lose! and wayzata could have scored on our defenses during the mason era. i started to think mason's time came to close because his recruiting was so bad! dont give me the eric decker bit, cause mason had nothing to do with his development and decker was either playing d3 christian or for the U.

brewster does deserve to see his recruits become upper classmen. this isnt basketball, one player cant change 40 years of average football and poor atmosphere. brew has recruited damn good and our strength program looks like they are doing a great job. if you dont believe that, your not using logic and trying to use records as your reasoning behind your negativity. i can speak from experience, changing a program/community attitude is very hard and it doesnt happen overnight. it takes years and a lot of energy and hard work. but when it happens its amazing and everyone is not only excited but they expect postive outcomes. i think brew is doing this and building an atmosphere.

last, cause im really sick of the brew vs mason comments, these guys were/are handicapped by our university. honestly, how can we have the worst football budget in the big ten. northwestern and indiana have better budgets...really? its time we students/alums/fans step up and donate, even if it's $100.00. im a teacher, im not wealthy, but we somehow make a decent donation every year. if Brew doesnt work out, big names are going to look at our budget and laugh and then go someplace else. if brew works out what are the chances he sticks around? these are all variables that lead to finances. as a state, university, as a fanbase if we want better things to happen we need to get this budget to at least the middle of the pack.
 

Now you are slipping into the "what is Joel Maturi doing?" realm. But, my point was that we need to start winning some games. Now.
 

my point is maybe its not so much the coaches as it is the shortcoming of the u admin. maybe mason would have worked harder if more money was plugged into the football program.

my other point is, brew is willing to work here when many others wont

my last point is quit being so negative
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Now you are slipping into the "what is Joel Maturi doing?" realm. But, my point was that we need to start winning some games. Now.
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is it more fun to talk about what is wrong with something rather than what is good about something. being objective is one thing, but always picking out why we cant rather than why we can is not helping this program elevate. its what causes our program to have this divide on who is better when in reality they both have pros and cons...neither has a big ten title to their names so in my mind they are pretty much equal to me
 

You believe the fans who go to the games and want the team to win for many years are "why we don't win"? Negative vibes from the fans who want the team to win more than two Big Ten games this year are holding us back? How so? Isn't it obvious that any fan wanting a fourth year coach to win three Big Ten games is not really any part of any problem? How could 0-8, 3-5, 3-5 and then 2-6 be OK? Explain. Why not just accept the "wild" thing that was written above, a five win season would not be OK? I will concede that it might depend on which five games were won, but we all know that if we don't beat teams like NIU and SD we will be very lucky to get to five wins. And, that too would not be OK by me. I will leave you with your more "positive" position that 5-7 will be OK.
 

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