Marcus: Gopher basketball early projected lineup

[rivergopher]

Lots of reasons to be excited this year. One of the biggest reasons is that every guy on scholarship belongs. They are all legit D1 power conference players with offers to prove it. Our main issues/concerns are injuries and youth. When was the last time we could say that? Nice job by coach in building a roster. Should be fun!


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Not to be to much of a debbie downer and having watched a lot of Louisville games, Stockman has not shown anything to be a legit player. He has looked over matched every time he has played. And his career 2 pts and 2 rebounds are a testament to this.

 

[Bordergopher]

Not to be to much of a debbie downer and having watched a lot of Louisville games, Stockman has not shown anything to be a legit player. He has looked over matched every time he has played. And his career 2 pts and 2 rebounds are a testament to this.

You may end up being right. If so, he would be a third-string player at center (behind Curry and Oturu. I could live with that. I hope he proves you wrong though.


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[Roland Brooks]

Stockman has extreme length that will help in some situations. 2 points and 2 rebounds a game bring back Bob Martin and Trevor Winter memories which were not all bad.

 

[rivergopher]

Stockman has extreme length that will help in some situations. 2 points and 2 rebounds a game bring back Bob Martin and Trevor Winter memories which were not all bad.

I would love it if he was even close to those guys, but he has never played more than 5 minutes a game, Martin played over 20 his senior year and Winter 16. They both averaged more than 2.2 and 1.6 his best season, heck he only got in 18 games as a junior and was not injured.

 

[Bordergopher]

I would love it if he was even close to those guys, but he has never played more than 5 minutes a game, Martin played over 20 his senior year and Winter 16. They both averaged more than 2.2 and 1.6 his best season, heck he only got in 18 games as a junior and was not injured.

No question there are huge red flags when a guy has played three years and received so little playing time. The hope of many here is that part of the reason for the lack of minutes was the high level quality players above him on a very good team. Was that the case, or am I just holding out hope with no basis?


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[GopherPlaya]

He went 51-117 for 43.6% in the Nike EYBL last spring which was second most in the entire league for total three pointers made. That absolutely qualifies him as a knockdown shooter. Also averaged over 17 PPG which was 17th in the EYBL and the second leading scorer on the best regular season team.

Based on those numbers alone its absolutely not unreasonable at all to expect him to contribute (at least before the Stull commitment) even if he isn't the greatest athlete. Those numbers are much better than what Jamir Harris put up and he is 2-3 inches taller.

https://www.d1circuit.com/stats/lea...tab=league_instance_player_stats&tool=2364614

EYBL isn't the same as college. Guys get so many open looks on the AAU circuit & team defense isn't coached as well during AAU as it is during a high school or college season. ESPN had analysts called Jamir Harris the best shooter in the country. I know having a shooter is great but we are acting like Gabe is a guarantee plug & play player and I just don't see that. He is still a freshmen and as we saw last year freshmen do need time to adjust

 

[GopherPlaya]

You've been weirdly low on Gabe ever since we started recruiting him.

Having seen him play numerous times, I totally disagree with your analysis on his shooting prowess. He's also been very well coached, knows where to be, how to get to his spots, and really competes on defense. I'm pretty confident he will be a decent role player for us immediately.

I'm not low on him overall I just think we are going too far as thinking he will be an immediate impact player. I think he will have a good 4 year career but I don't think this year is the year he will break out

 

[Roland Brooks]

Stockman was behind Mathiang who has been in the NBA. Ray Spalding who was real solid. Not like he was playing behind Gas. Anas Mahmoud is really the one who took Stockmans tick. Mahmoud was a solid college player. Stockman will be serviceable.

 

[bizzle22]

I'm not low on him overall I just think we are going too far as thinking he will be an immediate impact player. I think he will have a good 4 year career but I don't think this year is the year he will break out

I agree with you. Unless we have injury/suspension issues I don't think Gabe will play more than spot minutes as a freshman. Doesn't mean I don't think he has the ability to eventually be a very good 4 year player for us.

 

[Gophs24]

I'm not low on him overall I just think we are going too far as thinking he will be an immediate impact player. I think he will have a good 4 year career but I don't think this year is the year he will break out

i think a lot depends how what you feel as being an "impact player". With Dupree and Stull on the roster its not like he is going to be expected to get a ton of minutes. So if he can give us a few minutes a game as a freshman and be that 3 & D type player in short burst then great. Especially if he can come in against a zone and be a guy that we can depend on to knock down open 3's.

before we got stull I was still pretty confident with what we had at the 2 with Pree & Gabe. Now with Stull we don't need to force anything onto Gabe out of the gates. Which I think will only help him.

 

[go_gophers]

Hard to average more than 2 and 2 in only 5 minutes. Tons of question marks, but I'll take my question marks in a 7 foot, 240 pound body with reputed nice touch around the basket. If he can catch a pass and finish around the basket, IW will make him look good.

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

EYBL isn't the same as college

Great incite!

He's a knockdown shooter, plain and simple.

 

[WarriorGopher]

i think a lot depends how what you feel as being an "impact player". With Dupree and Stull on the roster its not like he is going to be expected to get a ton of minutes. So if he can give us a few minutes a game as a freshman and be that 3 & D type player in short burst then great. Especially if he can come in against a zone and be a guy that we can depend on to knock down open 3's.

before we got stull I was still pretty confident with what we had at the 2 with Pree & Gabe. Now with Stull we don't need to force anything onto Gabe out of the gates. Which I think will only help him.

As I've read and followed his game more, I've seen Gabe is a hell of a shooter and can play really solid D. If he comes in and can play 10-15 minutes a game, be a good defender and give this team a consistent perimeter shooting presence, that's an impact player in my book. I'm always amazed at how having 2 good outside shooters can make it so much easier for a big guy to score inside. A guy like Gabe could be a huge help to Murphy as the season goes.

 

[march madness]

Stull and Gabe look like similar players. Stull with the experience, and Gabe with possibly higher potential. Good to great 3pt shooters, who can also score off the dribble. Stull isn't a great defender, Gabe has the rep as a good defender at the high school level, even though he isn't super athletic either.

I don't see much room for minutes from Gabe with the Stull signing, barring injury.

 

[cjbfbp]

I would love it if he was even close to those guys, but he has never played more than 5 minutes a game, Martin played over 20 his senior year and Winter 16. They both averaged more than 2.2 and 1.6 his best season, heck he only got in 18 games as a junior and was not injured.

Well, as the say in the investment world, past performance is not always indicative of future results. There have been examples through the years of late developers, particularly big men. Here are the stats for a former Iowa 7 footer, Les Jepsen:

Year 1: redshirt
Year 2: 15 games; 3.1 minutes per game; 1.0 pts. and 1.1 rbs. per game
Year 3: 26 games; 4.4 minutes per game; 1.3 pts. and 1.5 rbs. per game
Year 4: 33 games; 20.2 minutes per game; 4.2 pts. and 5.3 rbs. per game
Year 5: 28 games; 29.2 minutes per game; 14.9 pts. and 10 rbs. per game

Now, he played for Tom Davis who was well known for playing a fast-paced pressing platoon style that regularly went 10 or 11 deep. Under a different coach with a much more stacked roster (like Louisville), he likely would have played less. Nevertheless, he didn't really come alive until his 5th year.

He ended up being drafted and spent a couple of years in the NBA.

Another Iowa 7 footer a few years earlier, Brad Lohaus, although better and more developed than Jepsen, didn't really make a big impact until his 5th year either. He ended up having a surprisingly long NBA career.

 

[oleboy41]

With a healthy Curry and Oturu I'm hoping Stockman is essentially the 3rd center. Curry can also play the 4 so there may be lineups with him and Oturu in at the same time. Shoot I'm not sure Jarvis can't play the 5 in a pinch. If Stockman can bring something then great. If not he's a big body (or at least a long one) with 5 fouls to give which isn't a bad thing to have

 

[Fire McHale]

PG is still a big issue, not a great position to have issues.

Agreed. If Carr isn't eligible for this season, we gambled and lost. Pinning all of our hopes on IW and out of position players to bring the ball up may fully unravel this team. If Carr is eligible I feel really good about our depth and would fully expect this to be a tourney team with a win in the tourney.

 

[cjbfbp]

With a healthy Curry and Oturu I'm hoping Stockman is essentially the 3rd center. Curry can also play the 4 so there may be lineups with him and Oturu in at the same time. Shoot I'm not sure Jarvis can't play the 5 in a pinch. If Stockman can bring something then great. If not he's a big body (or at least a long one) with 5 fouls to give which isn't a bad thing to have

We may have a need for a greater contribution from Stockman next year than you might think. With regard to Oturu:

1) If you look at big men ranked (according to RSCI consensus rankings) within the same range as Oturu over the last six years or so, more often than not they haven't made a big impact as freshman;

2) Oturu is coming off shoulder surgery and will have about two months or less of practice time before the season begins.

 

[gopherguy15]

I think some of you are being too negative with Stockman. He was buried on the depth chart in Louisville during his three years because they consistently had good centers. I guarantee our coaches were working with him all year to get him ready to be at least serviceable. Sometimes a year off can do wonders for a player's development. It takes very little to be better than Konate (though I loved the effort) and Diedhou. I don't expect him to be a great player, but I think he has the potential to be solid.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Agreed. If Carr isn't eligible for this season, we gambled and lost. Pinning all of our hopes on IW and out of position players to bring the ball up may fully unravel this team. If Carr is eligible I feel really good about our depth and would fully expect this to be a tourney team with a win in the tourney.

In today's pick n roll and up tempo world, it is definitely a necessity to have dynamic PG. So only having one right now stinks. But if you're worried about getting the ball up the court, I think Stull can handle it if need be.

 

[gray4heisman]

We may have a need for a greater contribution from Stockman next year than you might think. With regard to Oturu:

1) If you look at big men ranked (according to RSCI consensus rankings) within the same range as Oturu over the last six years or so, more often than not they haven't made a big impact as freshman;

2) Oturu is coming off shoulder surgery and will have about two months or less of practice time before the season begins.

48. Daniel Oturu

2017 - 54. Jericho Simms
2016 - 55. Robert Williams, 60. Zach Collins, 68. Lauri Markkanen

A quick look showed me this. Also, generally, bigs in that ranking range go to big time schools where freshman year input isn't as needed as Daniel coming in to the U. But I would say point #1 is just completely not true. Point #2 is more the emphasis. Not having summer workouts will hurt him. Would have loved for him to be healthy and put on some weight and develop a little more but with the playing time available at the 5 position, I think he still will progress well this season and serve as very valuable to our success.

 

[oleboy41]

We may have a need for a greater contribution from Stockman next year than you might think. With regard to Oturu:

1) If you look at big men ranked (according to RSCI consensus rankings) within the same range as Oturu over the last six years or so, more often than not they haven't made a big impact as freshman;

2) Oturu is coming off shoulder surgery and will have about two months or less of practice time before the season begins.

My thought isn't that Oturu is going to be great or anything. I'm thinking that our frontcourt is Murph/Curry against most teams. Murph is probably playing 32 mns a game again and Curry around 28 with about 8 of those at PF and 20 at C. If Oturo can give 15 mns a game that leaves 5 for Stockman. If Stockman is better than that then great but he doesn't have to do a ton. If Oturu stinks then maybe Curry can give a few more mns at C (or even Murphy if we want to play Jarvis or even Hurt at the 4 for a while). Point is against most teams we should have enough size in the rotation to get buy even if Stockman isn't providing much

 

[Winasota Gopher]

48. Daniel Oturu

2017 - 54. Jericho Simms
2016 - 55. Robert Williams, 60. Zach Collins, 68. Lauri Markkanen

A quick look showed me this. Also, generally, bigs in that ranking range go to big time schools where freshman year input isn't as needed as Daniel coming in to the U. But I would say point #1 is just completely not true. Point #2 is more the emphasis. Not having summer workouts will hurt him. Would have loved for him to be healthy and put on some weight and develop a little more but with the playing time available at the 5 position, I think he still will progress well this season and serve as very valuable to our success.

Because he found several examples in a quick search, but yeah, completely not true.

 

[oleboy41]

48. Daniel Oturu

2017 - 54. Jericho Simms
2016 - 55. Robert Williams, 60. Zach Collins, 68. Lauri Markkanen

A quick look showed me this. Also, generally, bigs in that ranking range go to big time schools where freshman year input isn't as needed as Daniel coming in to the U. But I would say point #1 is just completely not true. Point #2 is more the emphasis. Not having summer workouts will hurt him. Would have loved for him to be healthy and put on some weight and develop a little more but with the playing time available at the 5 position, I think he still will progress well this season and serve as very valuable to our success.

I think you missed the 'more often than not' part of his point. Sure there are some but there are many others who need time

 

[short ornery norwegian]

This may be nuts, but.........

I think Stockman may actually be the key to the season. Hear me out. IF Stockman proves to be at least serviceable, or a little better than serviceable, that changes the entire rotation. If Stockman can give them a solid 10-15 minutes, then the Gophers do NOT have to rush Oturu back from rehab. They do NOT have to put too much pressure on Curry coming back from the ACL, and keep his minutes in check. If Stockman can play C, then they do NOT have to put Murphy in the post, but can let him do what he does best.

so, IF Stockman pans out, it sets up the other pieces of the puzzle nicely.

On the other hand, if Stockman craps out, then the pieces line up very differently. More minutes for Oturu, more minutes at Center for Curry, etc.

I sure think it looks a lot more promising if Stockman can play.

 

[ltf]

I think some of you are being too negative with Stockman. He was buried on the depth chart in Louisville during his three years because they consistently had good centers. I guarantee our coaches were working with him all year to get him ready to be at least serviceable. Sometimes a year off can do wonders for a player's development. It takes very little to be better than Konate (though I loved the effort) and Diedhou. I don't expect him to be a great player, but I think he has the potential to be solid.

Agree with this. Someone else posted they watched a Stockman 12 point game on you tube and came away impressed. I watched the same game and came to the same conclusion. He moves fine and has a nice touch round the basket. He won't get pushed around. Judging from that game, we will be very glad to have him.

 

[fraternity2017]

This may be nuts, but.........

I think Stockman may actually be the key to the season. Hear me out. IF Stockman proves to be at least serviceable, or a little better than serviceable, that changes the entire rotation. If Stockman can give them a solid 10-15 minutes, then the Gophers do NOT have to rush Oturu back from rehab. They do NOT have to put too much pressure on Curry coming back from the ACL, and keep his minutes in check. If Stockman can play C, then they do NOT have to put Murphy in the post, but can let him do what he does best.

so, IF Stockman pans out, it sets up the other pieces of the puzzle nicely.

On the other hand, if Stockman craps out, then the pieces line up very differently. More minutes for Oturu, more minutes at Center for Curry, etc.

I sure think it looks a lot more promising if Stockman can play.

If everybody mostly plays to their potential and mostly stays healthy we should have a ton of quality (Big 10 average or above average) players for next year. Maybe get the Pitino Press going since we have tons of legs and expose some less deep or top heavy teams and win some games we shouldn't.

 

[alchemy2u]

This may be nuts, but.........

I think Stockman may actually be the key to the season. Hear me out. IF Stockman proves to be at least serviceable, or a little better than serviceable, that changes the entire rotation. If Stockman can give them a solid 10-15 minutes, then the Gophers do NOT have to rush Oturu back from rehab. They do NOT have to put too much pressure on Curry coming back from the ACL, and keep his minutes in check. If Stockman can play C, then they do NOT have to put Murphy in the post, but can let him do what he does best.

so, IF Stockman pans out, it sets up the other pieces of the puzzle nicely.

On the other hand, if Stockman craps out, then the pieces line up very differently. More minutes for Oturu, more minutes at Center for Curry, etc.

I sure think it looks a lot more promising if Stockman can play.

I agree. And Pitino has done a good job of developing big men like Lynch and Walker (the ones that had the talent to play in the B1G).


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[dpodoll68]

Because he found several examples in a quick search, but yeah, completely not true.

Plus some of the examples he found don't even support his point. The initial post referred to big men (I wouldn't really consider Sims a big man, more of a stretch 4 or even a 3) and Sims wasn't even very good last year, averaging 5.0 ppg and 3.9 rpg in 18.5 mpg. That's not exactly a big impact, which again was the initial post's point.

 

[cjbfbp]

48. Daniel Oturu

2017 - 54. Jericho Simms
2016 - 55. Robert Williams, 60. Zach Collins, 68. Lauri Markkanen

A quick look showed me this. Also, generally, bigs in that ranking range go to big time schools where freshman year input isn't as needed as Daniel coming in to the U. But I would say point #1 is just completely not true. Point #2 is more the emphasis. Not having summer workouts will hurt him. Would have loved for him to be healthy and put on some weight and develop a little more but with the playing time available at the 5 position, I think he still will progress well this season and serve as very valuable to our success.

Yes, I agree you took a very quick look. Is that what you did as a student? Looked at a couple of sources quickly and called it a day?

You didn't go back very far. Yes, the 2016 group was exceptional and 2017 was pretty good as well.

How about these:

2015: Chance Comanche, Daniel Giddens, Ted Kapita, Jesse Govan
2014: Thomas Welsh (he's pretty good now), Goodluck Okonoboh, Paul White, Jakeenan Grant, Elbert Robinson
2013: Moses Kingsley

Notice that I couched my words with the phrase "more often than not." Some of you should learn how to detect nuance and use it yourselves.