Look at the standings and get a grip

[DarrenTheGreek]

OSU 7-1
Iowa 6-2
PSU 6-2
Wisconsin 5-3
NW 5-3
MSU 4-4
Purdue 4-4
MN 3-5
Illinois 2-6
Michigan 1-7
Indiana 1-7

The Gophers played the 3 best teams in the conference on the road and the 2 worst teams in the conference were off our schedule this year. This was an unbelievable bad luck season as far as scheduling goes. Yet we still went 3-1 against the middle of the conference with the 1 loss being a tough 3 point loss to Sconnie.

The Illinois loss was bad, no question about that. But in any "normal" scheduling season we'd be a solid 4th-5th place team which most people would be content with for a coach in his 3rd season.

Am I satisfied? No. There are definite things that need to be improved upon but I am not willing to start back at square one with a new coach.

Keep the coach.

 

[thailleagle]

Mason-Level Excuses

 

[monk10]

Mason-Level Excuses

Not enough random ..... at the end.

 

[i'm batman]

darren,

ignorant reactionists like illeagle are the norm here, no sense in trying to to have a rational conversation.

we need to fire the coach, can the football program and tell all the talent to transfer to nebraska!

 

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

I agree that we got a bad draw schedule-wise with the byes. But its hard to beat even Indiana or Meechigan if your offense doesn't occasionally score a TD. The Hoosiers LIT UP Iowa a few weeks ago. If it wasn't for crooked reffing they would have won the game. And keep in mind that we're one of the few BT teams that Dickrod has managed to beat in his 2 seasons in AA.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

I agree that we got a bad draw schedule-wise with the byes. But its hard to beat even Indiana or Meechigan if your offense doesn't occasionally score a TD. The Hoosiers LIT UP Iowa a few weeks ago. If it wasn't for crooked reffing they would have won the game. And keep in mind that we're one of the few BT teams that Dickrod has managed to beat in his 2 seasons in AA.

I agree that we don't know with 100% certainty what would happen against Michigan or Indiana but here's what we do know.

Heading into the season there were 4 games in which I felt we had a very small chance to win (Cal, @PSU, @OSU, @Iowa). We were 0-4 in those games with 2.5 of them being competitive.

Heading into the season there were 4 games I thought the Gophers would be definitive favorites (Syracuse, Air Force, Purdue, SDSU). We were 4-0 against them with 3 of them being being of the "WHEW, we escaped" variety.

Heading into the season there 4 games I thought were pretty close to being toss-ups (@NW, Wis, MSU, Illinois). We were 2-2 in those games with the 2 losses being by a FG.

In hindsight, the Illinois game should have been marked a "definitive favorite" game and the Purdue game should have been marked as a toss-up.

Again, it's not great. It's completely mediocre and not what I'm satisfied with but it's not enough to be jumping off a bridge.

 

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

In the "small chance to win" games you're rounding up on that 2.5 being competitive. Cal for sure, and maybe 0.5 vs. Iowa. Its hard to make a case we ever showed a reason why we were going to win in Columbus At least yesterday we had a couple of times that if we had executed (or at least not effed up royally) we would have put points ont he board.

And pulling it out of your 3rd point of contact in 75% of the games you expect to win handily isn't a ringing endorsement of the coaching staff either.

I agree that we went 2-2 in the close games, but that doesn't excuse blowing the one that should have been a gimme. Like you said, with hindsight Illinois is a terrible football team. Its inexcusable that we didn't come out of the tunnel until the 2nd half. That game singlehandedly blew our season. Win that one, and you could already make your travel reservations for San Antonio.

We also agree that mediocrity is not acceptable. If it was, we should have kept Glen. At least we'd have an offense. Actually, if you took the best parts of Mason and Brewster you'd have a fairly decent football coach. Other than the coaching in November thang.

 

[thailleagle]

darren,

ignorant reactionists like illeagle are the norm here, no sense in trying to to have a rational conversation.

We got rid of Glen for constant mediocrity & now we're making excuses for accepting it by throwing a bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda scenarios together........

My how things change but don't change.......

 

[i'm batman]

We got rid of Glen for constant mediocrity & now we're making excuses for accepting it by throwing a bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda scenarios together........

My how things change but don't change.......

i was going to ask if you were really that stupid. but then i remembered your posting history.

GLEN had 10 years! if brewster is still at mason levels after ten years, then yes, can him.

 

[thailleagle]

i was going to ask if you were really that stupid. but then i remembered your posting history.

GLEN had 10 years! if brewster is still at mason levels after ten years, then yes, can him.

What did Glen do in 3 & what has Brewster done in 3.......

The selective perception of some of you posters is amazing.......

 

[Khaliq]

i was going to ask if you were really that stupid. but then i remembered your posting history.

GLEN had 10 years! if brewster is still at mason levels after ten years, then yes, can him.

you want to give him ten years?

that's uh. well then.

 

[STPGopher]

What did Glen do in 3 & what has Brewster done in 3.......

The selective perception of some of you posters is amazing.......

And in Year three most all of his best players were seniors. Both sides of the ball. He also had stability in the coaching staff save Uzilac (sp?) who he canned after year one, not two.

My point is, I still think we really need to see what next season brings.

 

[Khaliq]

And in Year three most all of his best players were seniors. Both sides of the ball. He also had stability in the coaching staff save Uzilac (sp?) who he canned after year one, not two.

My point is, I still think we really need to see what next season brings.

Apparently that's premature. I just found out we have to wait until 2016.

 

[StewieGopherFan]

What did Glen do in 3 & what has Brewster done in 3.......

The selective perception of some of you posters is amazing.......

Being selective? You selected the one year out of his first 5 years that Mason actually had a winning record. How many winning seasons has Brewster had in his first 3 years? 1 and it's possible he may have 2. I'm not going to look it up but I'm sure I can guess who has had the tougher schedule as well................... I'm guessing that's enough periods but please, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Khaliq]

The point you raise about scheduling is quite valid, Stewie. It speaks to the subjectivity of record. The Gophers exist in a particular brand of football that isn't just a wins and losses league, but one that puts different valuations on wins and losses based on their quality. There does seem to be a bit of a double standard around here with regards to wins and losses. A win is always a win, but a loss is rarely just a loss. Can't have it both ways.

The fact is to judge the state of the program you do have to look deeper than just the win loss record. You have to look at the quality of the players coming down the pipe, the contributions of the younger classes, the development of the more advanced classes, the establishment of both offensive and defensive systems and the progress on both sides of the ball.

Saying "look at the record and shut up" is an attempt to evade debate.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

What did Glen do in 3 & what has Brewster done in 3.......

The selective perception of some of you posters is amazing.......

Take a closer look at that 1999 record and standings:
Wis 7-1 (L)
MSU 6-2 (n/a)
Michigan 6-2 (n/a)
MN 5-3
PSU 5-3 (W)
Illinois 4-4 (W)
Purdue 4-4 (L)
OSU 3-5 (L)
Indiana 3-5 (W)
NW 1-7 (W)
Iowa 0-8 (W)

Not to take anything away from that team but they were very fortunate to miss 2 of the top 3 teams in the conference that season. Take away NW and Iowa that year and replace them with MSU and Michigan and you might be staring at a 3-5 record.

 

[gopherguy05]

Take a closer look at that 1999 record and standings:
Wis 7-1 (L)
MSU 6-2 (n/a)
Michigan 6-2 (n/a)
MN 5-3
PSU 5-3 (W)
Illinois 4-4 (W)
Purdue 4-4 (L)
OSU 3-5 (L)
Indiana 3-5 (W)
NW 1-7 (W)
Iowa 0-8 (W)

Not to take anything away from that team but they were very fortunate to miss 2 of the top 3 teams in the conference that season. Take away NW and Iowa that year and replace them with MSU and Michigan and you might be staring at a 3-5 record.

Don't make a rational well thought out argument on here. What are you insane! This is where Thaileagle is boss, and conjecture and hearsay rule!

 

[FireDaveLee]

Take a closer look at that 1999 record and standings:
Wis 7-1 (L)
MSU 6-2 (n/a)
Michigan 6-2 (n/a)
MN 5-3
PSU 5-3 (W)
Illinois 4-4 (W)
Purdue 4-4 (L)
OSU 3-5 (L)
Indiana 3-5 (W)
NW 1-7 (W)
Iowa 0-8 (W)

Not to take anything away from that team but they were very fortunate to miss 2 of the top 3 teams in the conference that season. Take away NW and Iowa that year and replace them with MSU and Michigan and you might be staring at a 3-5 record.

Knock it off, Greek...you keep beating me to the punch. First with Randy Shaver & now this.

1999: Minnesota didn't play Michigan (Orange Bowl winner) & Michigan State (Citrus Bowl winner). You're probably looking at 3-5 in the conference & 6-5 overall since it was a stellar out of conference schedule with Ohio, UL-Monroe & Illinois State.

Mason lovers LOVE to bring up 1999 & 2003. Good football teams, but 99 missed Michigan & MSU & 2003 missed Ohio State (Fiesta Bowl champ) & Purdue (lost CapitalOne Bowl in OT to Georgia). These aren't excuses, they are facts.

If people are going to prosecute Brewster in regards to his coaching abilities, Glen Mason isn't exactly top notch evidence to present to the jury.

 

[Monty519]

Take a closer look at that 1999 record and standings:
Wis 7-1 (L)
MSU 6-2 (n/a)
Michigan 6-2 (n/a)
MN 5-3
PSU 5-3 (W)
Illinois 4-4 (W)
Purdue 4-4 (L)
OSU 3-5 (L)
Indiana 3-5 (W)
NW 1-7 (W)
Iowa 0-8 (W)

Not to take anything away from that team but they were very fortunate to miss 2 of the top 3 teams in the conference that season. Take away NW and Iowa that year and replace them with MSU and Michigan and you might be staring at a 3-5 record.

That's a pretty convincing argument there, can't lie about that. Both teams beat a 5-3 conference team, this year's team actually beat two 4-4 conference teams, while the 99 team only one. The 2-6 loss may kinda make up for that, though they lost to a 3-5 team. Very interesting....

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

So who are the players on the current roster that would crack the 99 line-up? Decker would be the only lock. Brown maybe for Russ and Lawrence for Poole/Hall.
That squad had about 10 players who played in the pro's to some degree. Mason inherited a good number of the best players from Wacker. An example of a coach-down job by Mason, IMO.

 

[FireDaveLee]

I'd take Tow-Arnett over the Alex Haas/Zach Vevea/Scooter Baagus combo. I also would take Cooper over Ben Mezera simply because of talent.

But you're right; an underrated aspect in all of that was that Wacker had left a few decent players in the cupboard.

 

[howeda7]

It's not the wins and losses that are disturbing about Brewster at this point. It's the appearance of getting out-coached virtually every week, rarely sending a team out there that looks well-prepared. It's about never, in 3 years, blowing anyone out, even though there were several times you should have. It's having an offensive stretch of 7 games that's as bad as I've ever seen. It's about constant personal foul penalties and general lack of discipline both on and off the field. It's about players screaming at coaches on the sideline. It's about other players seeming disinterested in what thier teamates are doing. It's about a coaching sideline that generally appears to be in chaos. It's about calling timeout to set up a play and then immediately having to call another one to avoid a delay of game. It's about a constant need to spin everything in a positive manner, even when it has long ceased to be 'refreshing' and now just makes you look like a fool. It's about reaming out your boss in front of your players. It's all of the above and more. The man can't cut it at this job. It's become painfully clear. He will be fired eventually, so it may as well happen now.

 

[thailleagle]

Difference is the 1999 team was competitive in *EVERY* game.......

Their 3 losses were by a combined 11 points to 3 ranked teams. Wisconsin in OT, took OSU down to the last drive & Purdue by 5. There's no guarantee Michigan or MSU would've been automatic losses either so the entire shoulda, woulda, coulda game is invalid. They also beat Penn State on the road, the #2 team in the country at the time. We've loss to ranked teams this year by a combined score of 136-56........

 

[AhliBobwa]

We got rid of Glen for constant mediocrity & now we're making excuses for accepting it by throwing a bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda scenarios together........

My how things change but don't change.......

I'm sure Thailleagle would love for us to fire the entire coaching staff, thus undercutting the solid recruiting Brewster has done here. Thailleagle also knows less than nothing about football, clearly has an axe to grind, is probably 12 at most, and shouldn't be taken seriously under any circumstances.

Listen people, I don't know if Brewster is the long term answer, but I do know that even if he isn't 5 years of good recruiting is nothing to sniff at. Even if (god forbid) Brewster isn't going to be the answer, at least the next coach will have a cupboard full of talent when he arrives. I think all the naysayers will be proven wrong next year, but once again, even if Brewster is a bust the program is moving the correct direction.

 

[AhliBobwa]

Take a closer look at that 1999 record and standings:
Wis 7-1 (L)
MSU 6-2 (n/a)
Michigan 6-2 (n/a)
MN 5-3
PSU 5-3 (W)
Illinois 4-4 (W)
Purdue 4-4 (L)
OSU 3-5 (L)
Indiana 3-5 (W)
NW 1-7 (W)
Iowa 0-8 (W)

Not to take anything away from that team but they were very fortunate to miss 2 of the top 3 teams in the conference that season. Take away NW and Iowa that year and replace them with MSU and Michigan and you might be staring at a 3-5 record.

+1

 

[thailleagle]

I'm sure Thailleagle would love for us to fire the entire coaching staff,

This is why assuming things is idiotic, I've stated plenty of times that Brewster needs to coach at least one more year.......

 

[Schnoodler]

I remember when wacker was fired. I felt really bad for him because I thought what he was trying to do here was just gaining momentum, and that his newer recruits were quite good. I remember thinking that just a couple more years he might actually have a decent team. I totally understood the decision, he hadn't gotten it done, but I just thought he was a little slow out of the gate because of his different personality. Mason most definitely benefited from those last two recruiting classes. The best talent Mason was ever able to acquire.

 

[howeda7]

I remember when wacker was fired. I felt really bad for him because I thought what he was trying to do here was just gaining momentum, and that his newer recruits were quite good. I remember thinking that just a couple more years he might actually have a decent team. I totally understood the decision, he hadn't gotten it done, but I just thought he was a little slow out of the gate because of his different personality. Mason most definitely benefited from those last two recruiting classes. The best talent Mason was ever able to acquire.

Wacker left some decent talent, but it's quite a stretch to say it was the best talent Mason ever acquired. The 2003 team was Mason't best by far, IMO, with 1999 right behind. Yes the 1999 team still had some Wacker recruits, but the 2003 certainly didn't.

 

[gophermartin]

we got rid of him for epic collapses after 10 years. Brewster deserves more than 3. I'll go with 5.

Exend his contract now so his recruiting doesn't suffer. It can be structured I'm sure so the U is protected from a massive buyout.

GM

 

[dpodoll68]

That squad had about 10 players who played in the pro's to some degree.

It was 14, actually. I did this research a while ago, and I'll keep telling anyone who listens. This is especially poignant when told to the idiots who try to compare Glen Mason's third season to Brewster's third season.

Glen Mason fielded 14 athletes in 1999 who went on to play in the NFL. Nine of these were Wacker recruits. How many Mason recruits did Brewster field in 2009 who will play in the NFL? One.

For those of you with this mindset, good luck convincing anyone with a brain that Mason left just as much for Brewster as Wacker did for him.

Wacker left some decent talent, but it's quite a stretch to say it was the best talent Mason ever acquired. The 2003 team was Mason't best by far, IMO, with 1999 right behind. Yes the 1999 team still had some Wacker recruits, but the 2003 certainly didn't.

I'll repeat: 14 players from 1999 played in the NFL, and 9 were Wacker recruits. Outside of 2003, which was close, I'd defy you to name any Gopher team from the last 50 years (or maybe ever) who came anywhere near this total. I don't think anyone truly appreciates how much could've been accomplished that season, and how much Glen Mason underachieved with the talent that was handed to him.

P.S. The 2003 team did have 11 guys go on to play in the NFL: Barber, Lloyd, Maroney, Montgomery, Payne, Reid, Setterstrom, Spaeth, Tapeh, Utecht, and Wheelwright. That list does not include Eslinger, because for the purposes of this research, I only included men who actually played in the NFL. Even though he was drafted, Eslinger has never played a down in the NFL.