Chip Scoggins: Twenty more years will not erase the stain that Clem Haskins oversaw

Donate To GopherHole
BleedGopher

BleedGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
62,774
Reaction score
20,175
Points
113
per Chip:

Clem Haskins isn’t a martyr. He’s not entitled to a hero’s return.

A 20-year retrospective on a Final Four trip that never officially happened rekindled a debate over whether the University of Minnesota should honor Haskins’ 1997 men’s basketball team that brought so much joy and later shame.

The divide in public opinion is not surprising. Haskins’ comments were.

The coach who bears ultimate responsibility for one of the most painful episodes in Gophers athletic history sounded tone-deaf in practically begging for red-carpet treatment.

“Befriending me or making me feel welcomed back is very important, particularly to my players,” Haskins told the Star Tribune for that story. “The president and the athletic director, they need to reach out and welcome me back.”

Why is the university being cast as the bad guy in this debate?

http://www.startribune.com/twenty-m...he-stain-that-clem-haskins-oversaw/417527603/

Go Gophers!!
 

I posted a response to Chips article in the Strib, so I won't post it here. But IMO Chip nailed it.
 


That'd be horrible. UNC is awesome.

Also, I think Chip nailed it. Why can't they all just move on with their lives? What difference does it make at this point? The 1997 team was great. It'll never be forgotten by those who lived through it. Why does it have to be made into more than that or brought back up?

This just seems so Minnesotan---we can't let the "one of us" thing die. We don't need to "bring back" every single successful player or team and honor them. They played basketball and won a lot of games. Gave the fans good memories. Let that be that.
 

Biggsohnasty said:
That'd be horrible. UNC is awesome.

Also, I think Chip nailed it. Why can't they all just move on with their lives? What difference does it make at this point? The 1997 team was great. It'll never be forgotten by those who lived through it. Why does it have to be made into more than that or brought back up?

This just seems so Minnesotan---we can't let the "one of us" thing die. We don't need to "bring back" every single successful player or team and honor them. They played basketball and won a lot of games. Gave the fans good memories. Let that be that.
Click to expand...

I am kind of on the fence with both sides here. I like the perspective in this thread, still I have a hard time not honoring the players. I wouldn't exactly welcome back Haskins to a ticker tape parade, but I would honor the athletic ability of one special team. Forgive the players who were kids at the time and now know what happened was wrong. You don't have to forgive the coach, I hold his wrong doing to a higher standard.
 


Biggsohnasty said:
That'd be horrible. UNC is awesome.

Also, I think Chip nailed it. Why can't they all just move on with their lives? What difference does it make at this point? The 1997 team was great. It'll never be forgotten by those who lived through it. Why does it have to be made into more than that or brought back up?

This just seems so Minnesotan---we can't let the "one of us" thing die. We don't need to "bring back" every single successful player or team and honor them. They played basketball and won a lot of games. Gave the fans good memories. Let that be that.
Click to expand...
Because we all have a VCR tape narrated by Ray Christianson sharing the glory of that spectacular season.

Never let it go, never give in. Fight the power. [emoji35]
 

MennoSota said:
Because we all have a VCR tape narrated by Ray Christianson sharing the glory of that spectacular season.

Never let it go, never give in. Fight the power. [emoji35]
Click to expand...

Dick Bremer.
 





macgopher said:
I wouldn't exactly welcome back Haskins
Click to expand...

Well, I was a young pup and fell in love with playing basketball and the Gophers during the Clem years, my first trips to the barn were a magical experience. Willie, etc. I was hooked. Later Voshon Leonard was a like hero to me. So when I was at the game in 2009, I couldn't help but stand and cheer when Haskings stood up and eventually came on the court (with the players and Sid's assuring).
____________

Haskins was at Williams Arena three years ago when the U recognized the 25th anniversary of his 1989 Sweet 16 team. But his first time back after the scandal was Dec. 29, 2009, a recognition of the 20th anniversary of his Elite Eight season. Those teams came before the academic violation period.

Haskins said last week that administration didn’t want him there in 2009. But his players insisted and brought him up from the stands to the court with them. He ended up hearing his name announced to resounding cheers
 

How hungry are we for a " winner " that we would turn the clock back 20 years and welcome back the director of the biggest scandal in Gopher history? My son went to 4 of Clem's camps at St.Thomas and he would tell the kids in the orientation the importance of doing the right thing in all aspects of becoming an adult. I loved Clem, but for me he is just a bad memory
 

Two more wins that year and we probably would have gotten a 30 for 30 out of the deal
 

Great article. Until Haskins actually owns up and takes responsibility, he can stay on his farm in Kentucky for all I care and pine for forgiveness and admiration he really doesn't deserve.
 



MennoSota said:
Talk to me when North Carolina gets the death penalty.
Click to expand...

Why does that matter? If your neighbor cheats on his spouse and gets away with it, does that make it OK for you or I to do it?
 

Calgoph said:
Why does that matter? If your neighbor cheats on his spouse and gets away with it, does that make it OK for you or I to do it?
Click to expand...

In that scenario, your spouse is a soulless bureaucracy in Indianapolis. They're the ones being 'cheated' on and meeting out the punishment to one but not the other. Not a great comparison.
 

MennoSota said:
Because we all have a VCR tape narrated by Ray Christianson sharing the glory of that spectacular season.

Never let it go, never give in. Fight the power. [emoji35]
Click to expand...

Here you go:


Go Gophers!!
 


The way the University/administration is always cast as the bad guy during these athletic scandals is just sad.
 

MennoSota said:
Talk to me when North Carolina gets the death penalty.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but yet it doesn't make it right. You're actually hurting the kids as well. What are they being taught?
 


I forgive them all but that does not mean that justice forgets. Bobby Jackson understands the best part, the lesson to teach his children. Cheating means no banner. If someone cheated and won the Masters he would be disqualified and 20 years later you would not give him the green jacket and honor him.
 

builtbadgers said:
I forgive them all but that does not mean that justice forgets. Bobby Jackson understands the best part, the lesson to teach his children. Cheating means no banner. If someone cheated and won the Masters he would be disqualified and 20 years later you would not give him the green jacket and honor him.
Click to expand...

I wish Clem were as open to talking about this as Bobby has been. Him now compared with him then is no comparison - then he was quiet, immature, irresponsible, committed to his sport but not his education; now he's a totally different person who has reckoned with his past and learned from it. That's the good that can come from the bad. Clem would do well to tell his story, but it would be difficult to admit, not that he perpetrated the fraud, but that he lied about it once it was discovered. That would be the tough part to admit.
 

builtbadgers said:
I forgive them all but that does not mean that justice forgets. Bobby Jackson understands the best part, the lesson to teach his children. Cheating means no banner. If someone cheated and won the Masters he would be disqualified and 20 years later you would not give him the green jacket and honor him.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is talking about green jackets or medals and trophies, just a little thanking the players for one fine season of basketball honoring young men who now know what they did academically was wrong. We don't need to honor the coach, as I said on a prior post, I myself hold a coach to a higher standard. If not for him the players do not cheat academically- and I don't think you can invert this statement.
 

macgopher said:
thanking the players for one fine season of basketball honoring young men who now know what they did academically was wrong
Click to expand...

You're infantilizing grown men. They were 18-22 year old adults. They 100% knew that what they were doing was wrong, at the time they were doing it. We're not talking about preteens or adolescents.
 

Great posts built & Bad.
Bobby's time here was part of his rising - it didn't stop him from moving forward and succeeding. For Clem, it led to decline - the end of his career. A much tougher reckoning. And Clem was ultimately the decision maker, Bobby was guilty of going along with it. Certainly there is much more to the story on how it was internally justified - both at the U and inside Clem.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You're infantilizing grown men. They were 18-22 year old adults. They 100% knew that what they were doing was wrong, at the time they were doing it. We're not talking about preteens or adolescents.
Click to expand...


You've pretty much talked a lot of people into feeling better about the '97 team!
(Oh, and if you don't think college aged males aren't still adolescents you're unaware of brain development - good judgment still has a long ways to go at that age - if it happens)
 

Moonlight said:
You've pretty much talked a lot of people into feeling better about the '97 team!
Click to expand...

I don't care how people feel about it. The true colors of many on this board have been shown.

Moonlight said:
(Oh, and if you don't think college aged males aren't still adolescents you're unaware of brain development - good judgment still has a long ways to go at that age - if it happens)
Click to expand...

Having good judgment and a basic understanding of right and wrong are very different things.
 

macgopher said:
I don't think anyone is talking about green jackets or medals and trophies, just a little thanking the players for one fine season of basketball honoring young men who now know what they did academically was wrong. We don't need to honor the coach, as I said on a prior post, I myself hold a coach to a higher standard. If not for him the players do not cheat academically- and I don't think you can invert this statement.
Click to expand...

The players are just as culpable. They had an opportunity to do the right thing and they did not. The leadership of Haskins and poor choices lead to years of basketball irrelevance at the U.

When Clem came back a few years ago and received a standing ovation, it made me sick to my stomach.

Forgive yes, but glorify...no way.
 


Moonlight said:
Great posts built & Bad.
Bobby's time here was part of his rising - it didn't stop him from moving forward and succeeding. For Clem, it led to decline - the end of his career. A much tougher reckoning. And Clem was ultimately the decision maker, Bobby was guilty of going along with it. Certainly there is much more to the story on how it was internally justified - both at the U and inside Clem.
Click to expand...

How do you suppose UNC is internally justifying their run to another FF this weekend, even though the world knows about decades of cheating that put MN Ganglegate to shame?

Level playing field.......
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom