Should the refs be reviewed by the NCAA and the Big Ten?

[Taji34]

I'm not saying outright they should be reviewed, and there may be some bias from the loss, but regardless there seems to be some calls that were terrible. Is there enough evidence to warrant a review? If you have some (pictures are welcome), please feel free to post it here. If you have arguments for certain plays being called the way they were, also feel free to post. Plays that come to mind: Multiple PI that weren't called against Michigan (Wolitarsky and Maye icompletions), the flag that was picked up after the Leidner sack, and Michigan lining up in the neutral zone on the last play with a ref looking directly at it.

 

[Hates Monikers]

I didn't come away from the game thinking the officiating was bad. There were some calls I thought were missed (the pass interference on the pass to Brooks and the personal foul on the Leidner sack, in particular). But there are misses every game, and I'll bet Michigan fans could name a few, too.

 

[Taji34]

I didn't come away from the game thinking the officiating was bad. There were some calls I thought were missed (the pass interference on the pass to Brooks and the personal foul on the Leidner sack, in particular). But there are misses every game, and I'll bet Michigan fans could name a few, too.

I'm sure they could. I myself think I may be biased, so I'm looking for concrete proof either way.

 

[MNfootballfan]

I didn't come away from the game thinking the officiating was bad. There were some calls I thought were missed (the pass interference on the pass to Brooks and the personal foul on the Leidner sack, in particular). But there are misses every game, and I'll bet Michigan fans could name a few, too.

As the Michigan fan said behind me last Saturday. Big Ten officials are the worst. They not only make bad calls, but game changing calls (sack on Leidner). These calls directly change the outcome of the game. The Michigan fan and I were talking and they weren't favoring either team, but just making poor calls.

 

[Taji34]

As the Michigan fan said behind me last Saturday. Big Ten officials are the worst. They not only make bad calls, but game changing calls (sack on Leidner). These calls directly change the outcome of the game. The Michigan fan and I were talking and they weren't favoring either team, but just making poor calls.

So this could be a collection of all the bad calls during the game against either team? If they were bad they deserve to be called out on it.

 

[Hates Monikers]

One rule I don't like is on replays. Michigan had used up their challenge for the game. We score a game-winning touchdown, but it gets reviewed anyway. The call was correct, and I'm not saying we got screwed. But there are officials in the booth determining that one play will be reviewed while others will not. That's just as subjective as anything happening on the field.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I'm sure they could. I myself think I may be biased, so I'm looking for concrete proof either way.

There are always missed calls in every game. Officiating football games is insanely hard, and these guys strive to do the best they can.

If the fix was truly in as questions like yours imply, then don't you think the refs would have made sure we weren't sitting on the half yard line with a chance to win the game?

As for that picture from the last play it has already been pointed out that Moore had moved the ball forward which gives the impression of guys being lined up offsides.

The officials didn't cost us that game. The coaches lost the game by mismanaging the last few plays and on that final play the Michigan front just destroyed ours.

 

[50PoundHead]

One rule I don't like is on replays. Michigan had used up their challenge for the game. We score a game-winning touchdown, but it gets reviewed anyway. The call was correct, and I'm not saying we got screwed. But there are officials in the booth determining that one play will be reviewed while others will not. That's just as subjective as anything happening on the field.

Bugs me as well.

I know a guy who refs in the NFL and came up through the ranks. Refs at the major college and professional levels are reviewed after every game.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

If Claeyes feet are going to be hel to the fire for bad decisions, then the refs can. There are at least one set of eyeballs watching the area of the ball at all times. Some of the non-calls were bad.

Then again, self-induced pain cost us a lot. There was a sequence early in the second where we had an ilegal formation (Holland was off the Los I believe) which led to the Mortell punt/turnover. That absolutely killed us.

We didn't deserve to win because of dumb penalties and we couldn't punch it in man vs man at the end. That said, there should absolutely be scrutiny of the refs. #5 should get special attention, and I'm sure Claeyes mentioned his tactics.

 

[MNVCGUY]

So this could be a collection of all the bad calls during the game against either team? If they were bad they deserve to be called out on it.

They don't get tarred and feathered publicly like some fans want but every call gets reviewed by the officials and the league office and they all get graded. They make mistakes, but I would challenge any one of the armchair QB's to go out and try to ref even a youth level game just to see how difficult it really is. Whole lot tougher to be perfect without a HD TV and super slow-mo replays.

 

[Ole]

There are always missed calls in every game. Officiating football games is insanely hard, and these guys strive to do the best they can.

If the fix was truly in as questions like yours imply, then don't you think the refs would have made sure we weren't sitting on the half yard line with a chance to win the game?

As for that picture from the last play it has already been pointed out that Moore had moved the ball forward which gives the impression of guys being lined up offsides.

The officials didn't cost us that game. The coaches lost the game by mismanaging the last few plays and on that final play the Michigan front just destroyed ours.

I'd argue the officiating was just bad, doesn't mean it cost us the game, but it was bad.
A few really key points to the game:

The WTF non safety on peppers, no way that's not reviewed for touching the ball, and no way they don't at least see him step out of bounds and get flagged for illegal touching. A badly dealt with play. Best case was 2 points and we kick a game winner rather than the events that happened, plus we get another possession.

The bad one-sidedness of the PI calls, call it tight, but call it tight on both sides. Michigan got a away with more than we did plain and simple.

The picking up of the flag on the roughing call on Mitch. I disagree with the call, QB's shouldn't be coddled like they are. Rough hits on the QB are part of what makes football fun. Either way, you can't pick that flag up after the fact.

The missed timeout of Clayes with a minute or so left drained 15-20 seconds off the clock. Add in the badly timed and stupid review of Maye's 4th down catch and there was plenty of poorly managed things on that last drive.

The missed timeout of Harbaugh on the shifting pass play at the goal line.

Whatever, it was a hell of a game but I never let the refs off the hook. They either should be able to do their job professionally or be criticized for screwing up, severely if necessary.

 

[50PoundHead]

If Claeyes feet are going to be hel to the fire for bad decisions, then the refs can. There are at least one set of eyeballs watching the area of the ball at all times. Some of the non-calls were bad.

Then again, self-induced pain cost us a lot. There was a sequence early in the second where we had an ilegal formation (Holland was off the Los I believe) which led to the Mortell punt/turnover. That absolutely killed us.

We didn't deserve to win because of dumb penalties and we couldn't punch it in man vs man at the end. That said, there should absolutely be scrutiny of the refs. #5 should get special attention, and I'm sure Claeyes mentioned his tactics.

Since Kill came on board, we seem to get called for chop blocking more than other teams. Must be something refs are told to watch for in their game prep (or something the opposing coaches are harping on).

The announcers were really talking up Michigan's Jourdan Lewis' coverage abilities and I will admit that covering wide receivers is pretty easy when you can put them in the equivalent of a head lock. Seems like he uses the old Bobby Knight/Dick Bennett basketball strategy in that if you are really egregious, the refs get tired of calling it.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The picking up of the flag on the roughing call on Mitch. I disagree with the call, QB's shouldn't be coddled like they are. Rough hits on the QB are part of what makes football fun. Either way, you can't pick that flag up after the fact.

Lord Harbaugh didn't like the call so they picked up the flag.

I'm joking of course, but there is no doubt coaches can influence the refs. We see it all the time in basketball.

I didn't think it was a penalty, but would have taken it. Would have been a make up for the missed PI on Brooks and missed facemask by Peppers on Wolitarsky. Both seemed so obvious.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I'd argue the officiating was just bad, doesn't mean it cost us the game, but it was bad.
A few really key points to the game:

The WTF non safety on peppers, no way that's not reviewed for touching the ball, and no way they don't at least see him step out of bounds and get flagged for illegal touching. A badly dealt with play. Best case was 2 points and we kick a game winner rather than the events that happened, plus we get another possession.

The bad one-sidedness of the PI calls, call it tight, but call it tight on both sides. Michigan got a away with more than we did plain and simple.

The picking up of the flag on the roughing call on Mitch. I disagree with the call, QB's shouldn't be coddled like they are. Rough hits on the QB are part of what makes football fun. Either way, you can't pick that flag up after the fact.

The missed timeout of Clayes with a minute or so left drained 15-20 seconds off the clock. Add in the badly timed and stupid review of Maye's 4th down catch and there was plenty of poorly managed things on that last drive.

The missed timeout of Harbaugh on the shifting pass play at the goal line.

Whatever, it was a hell of a game but I never let the refs off the hook. They either should be able to do their job professionally or be criticized for screwing up, severely if necessary.

The punt play is interesting. Whether it was touched or not is irrelevant. He recovered it and the force of the kick put it in the end zone. All plays are reviewed and they must have determined it was the right call. Not sure on the stepping out of bounds part as the ball has hit the ground and he re-established in bounds.

Pass interference calls were judgement calls that didn't go our way. I don't think the Brooks non-call was as bad as others make it out to be. I thought the calls on the gophers were all there.

The Ref who is the primary official on roughing the QB overruled the Center Judge on the Leidner call. No problem with that correction.

You wanted the Punt reviewed but not Maye's catch? I can't believe they confirmed that catch. I thought it would be stands as called or overturned. Ball almost moved in his hands.

 

[Ole]

The punt play is interesting. Whether it was touched or not is irrelevant. He recovered it and the force of the kick put it in the end zone. All plays are reviewed and they must have determined it was the right call. Not sure on the stepping out of bounds part as the ball has hit the ground and he re-established in bounds.

Pass interference calls were judgement calls that didn't go our way. I don't think the Brooks non-call was as bad as others make it out to be. I thought the calls on the gophers were all there.

The Ref who is the primary official on roughing the QB overruled the Center Judge on the Leidner call. No problem with that correction.

You wanted the Punt reviewed but not Maye's catch? I can't believe they confirmed that catch. I thought it would be stands as called or overturned. Ball almost moved in his hands.

Quite simply I don't give refs the benefit of the doubt on the reviews, the punt play was badly handled.
He cannot touch the ball first after stepping out of bounds. Worst case it should have been a penalty that backs them up. Like I said, it was a play that could have changed the entire game.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Quite simply I don't give refs the benefit of the doubt on the reviews, the punt play was badly handled.
He cannot touch the ball first after stepping out of bounds. Worst case it should have been a penalty that backs them up. Like I said, it was a play that could have changed the entire game.

Are you positive that rule is in effect on special teams plays? The bottom line is that they got the recovery portion of the call right and I haven't seen anyone say officially that they missed the call in regards to stepping out of bounds, but maybe I have missed it. It was a strange play to be sure but everything I have seen officially makes it appear that the call was correct.

 

[MNfootballfan]

Are you positive that rule is in effect on special teams plays? The bottom line is that they got the recovery portion of the call right and I haven't seen anyone say officially that they missed the call in regards to stepping out of bounds, but maybe I have missed it. It was a strange play to be sure but everything I have seen officially makes it appear that the call was correct.

I'm going to start by saying I don't know what the college rule is, but in the NFL you cannot be the first to touch the ball if you go out of bounds. It is not a penalty to go out of bounds, but the penalty occurs when the player touches the ball. In the case of the punt, the returner was the first to touch the ball and he was in the end zone. That is where the penalty would have occurred. Any penalty that occurs in the end zone is a safety.

That leads me to this question that I asked in another thread. What is the NCAA rule on stepping out of bounds?

 

[highwayman]

Sorry, but that punt play is never a safety, and the out of bounds rule only applies to passes. Basic rules of the game that have not changed for 50 years. Really.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

This officiating crew was no different than any other Big 10 official group

Lord Harbaugh didn't like the call so they picked up the flag.

I'm joking of course, but there is no doubt coaches can influence the refs. We see it all the time in basketball.

I didn't think it was a penalty, but would have taken it. Would have been a make up for the missed PI on Brooks and missed facemask by Peppers on Wolitarsky. Both seemed so obvious.

For whatever reason the game is not called the same way with the Gophers and the opponents at home, especially if they are a helmet favorite of the conference that brings in revenue, like Wisconsin, as hard as officiating is there is always bias it seems when the Gophers are having a down year and playing better perceived opponents. I have never seen a whole lot of examples over the years where the Gophers have ever gotten home cooking or a home team call.

I didn't like the sequence of events and play calling at the end that was what I was most disappointed with for the Gophers. They had an opportunity to win the game at the end and didn't. If the referees were really interested in screwing over the Gophers they could have called the KJ Maye catch on fourth down a incomplete pass because the ball did hit the ground at the end, with his hand underneath it. They could have chose to call that an incomplete pass, if they wanted to end the game in that spot.

I thought live that Wolitarsky didn't have clear possession of the football and did not secure the catch until he rolled forward in to the end zone but that was what I thought. The referees ruled and the replay official confirmed that he possessed the ball as his knees hit the 1/2 yard line so they must have gotten that call right. Before the Gophers even snapped the ball I thought clock the ball and settle the team down about the reversal in the huddle. I thought to my self we have to have at least three plays here with not a lot of time used, and we have to see the Gophers have a clear conversion. My thoughts were the QB sneak was a quick snap call after the referees set the ball and the only time to run the QB sneak was quick and right after they set the ball down. I would have tried the tight end play more of a stick route on the second down, and then a toss sweep either to Brooks or Maye on a Jet sweep to see if they could beat the defense to the pilon. I didn't like the shifting and wasted time, to much out-thinking the game of football in my opinion. I didn't like the called time out for the two point conversion play either because I thought the defense was set and had a good read on the play Michigan was running before the time out.
At the end, did not think the refs will call any penalty's even pass interference or holding, and the Gophers have to clearly break the plane for a TD to be called a touch down. Face it they were ranked and playing for something higher in the conference, the referee's are inclined to call it both ways and Michigan's defense was geared up to stop the exact play we ran on the last call of the game. You want to beat them one on one of course you do, but you need a more creative play call there, something that leaves nothing up to interpretation and nothing that would be a close stuff or anything that would be hard to see. I didn't like the math either of having Mitch try and beat two or more guys in that spot, if he is going to go high he needed to step and go high, otherwise it is best to go low and try and sneak through a crack. To me picking up the flag after calling it unnecessary roughness on the QB, because it was clear the tackler had intent to twist Mitches head and drive him down after what happened to the Michigan QB, that and he touched the QB's helmet so there was clear intent. That was not just a normal tackle. What happened to Ruddock wasn't intentional, #99 happened to collide with him as he started to slide that is why he got plowed in the head so much, that was a badly timed slide and unfortunate collision of the tacklers legs and QB head. The QB Ruddock initiated the High and Low that is why his helmet got knocked off. #7 Mitch the tackler whiplashed his head.

 

[gopher7]

Regarding the punt in the end zone. I think the rule is that if a receiving team has not controlled it and it breaks the plane of the goalline, then it's a touchback no matter what. If that is the case, then it would not matter if he stepped out of bounds, because by the time he touched it the play would have already been over. (Going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[MNfootballfan]

Sorry, but that punt play is never a safety, and the out of bounds rule only applies to passes. Basic rules of the game that have not changed for 50 years. Really.

This is not a basic rule and it does not apply to pass plays only. A basic rule is holding or offsides. I have watched a lot of football in my life and never seen a play like this. I still don't know if they called it correct or we got screwed on it.

This is according to USA Football:
Here’s where going out of bounds has an impact:
On kick plays. A player on a kicking team may not go out of bounds on his own and return inbounds. Merely returning inbounds creates a foul.
On regular scrimmage downs. Offensive players may not go out of bounds on their own and be the first to touch a pass.

http://usafootball.com/blog/fundame...re-spot-call-during-oregon-utah-fumble-return

 

[MNfootballfan]

Regarding the punt in the end zone. I think the rule is that if a receiving team has not controlled it and it breaks the plane of the goalline, then it's a touchback no matter what. If that is the case, then it would not matter if he stepped out of bounds, because by the time he touched it the play would have already been over. (Going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong)

That makes sense.

 

[Go Gophers Rah]

Regarding the punt in the end zone. I think the rule is that if a receiving team has not controlled it and it breaks the plane of the goalline, then it's a touchback no matter what. If that is the case, then it would not matter if he stepped out of bounds, because by the time he touched it the play would have already been over. (Going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong)

I think that is a correct read of the rule. But I think it is a bad rule. What would keep a receiving team from just swatting any ball inside the 10 back into their own end zone for a touchback???????

 

[MNVCGUY]

This is not a basic rule and it does not apply to pass plays only. A basic rule is holding or offsides. I have watched a lot of football in my life and never seen a play like this. I still don't know if they called it correct or we got screwed on it.

This is according to USA Football:
Here’s where going out of bounds has an impact:
On kick plays. A player on a kicking team may not go out of bounds on his own and return inbounds. Merely returning inbounds creates a foul.
On regular scrimmage downs. Offensive players may not go out of bounds on their own and be the first to touch a pass.

http://usafootball.com/blog/fundame...re-spot-call-during-oregon-utah-fumble-return

The way the part is worded in bold would lead me to believe that is only in effect for the kicking team and not the return team in which case it would not have applied to this play anyway.

 

[justthefacts]

I'm not getting why Peppers going out of bounds is such a crucial moment in the game. It's obvious it's not a safety because you can't get a safety if you've never possessed the ball. After that people are talking about whether it should have been a penalty, but who cares. Michigan ran 3 plays and punted from their 13. On the next possession the Gophers came down and kicked a FG. Why is that such a crucial call?

ANd regardless the ball may have hit Peppers hands, THEN he stepped out of bounds, then the ball bounced in the end zone. We've all seen 1000 punts in which the ball was blown dead when it hit the end zone.

The rule:

Team A punts. The ball is touched by Team B (no impetus added) and
crosses Team B’s goal line. Then Team B falls on the ball or the ball
goes out of bounds from the end zone. RULING: Touchback. The same
ruling applies if a kick in flight strikes Team B or merely is deflected
by an attempted catch. Team B may recover and advance, and it is a
touchback if a Team B player is downed in the end zone or goes out of
bounds behind the goal line (Rule 8-6-1-a).

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR15.pdf Page FI-53

 

[Old Goph]

I think that is a correct read of the rule. But I think it is a bad rule. What would keep a receiving team from just swatting any ball inside the 10 back into their own end zone for a touchback???????

I think the part you're missing here is if the ball is touched by the return team prior to entering the end zone, a player on the kicking team could recover it for a touchdown.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

They don't get tarred and feathered publicly like some fans want but every call gets reviewed by the officials and the league office and they all get graded. They make mistakes, but I would challenge any one of the armchair QB's to go out and try to ref even a youth level game just to see how difficult it really is. Whole lot tougher to be perfect without a HD TV and super slow-mo replays.

It is always tough for me to see how a professional official 5 feet away from a play can miss a call that beered up fans on the upper deck got right.

 

[justthefacts]

I think the part you're missing here is if the ball is touched by the return team prior to entering the end zone, a player on the kicking team could recover it for a touchdown.

Not to mention the rule specifically states that at the point the receiving team adds impetus to the ball, the possibility of a safety comes back into play.

 

[60's Guy]

Some things I think I know

Pretty much all referees are bad. Pretty much all referees are honest and do the best they can. I took a year off coaching and went to like a zillion basketball games helping select award winning players. My conclusion after that: referees are not biased...they are just horrible. And yes part of it is it's a really hard job.

My biggest complaint with officiating in the Gopher game was what seemed to be two different standards in pass interference...one for Michigan, no limits and one for the Gophers, no touching.
I did not think Poock on the interception had anywhere near the contact that Michigan had on Brooks. The Michigan receiver ran into Poock, he shielded himself because he knew where the ball was and Poock caught it. And if it is pass interference...that was the most contact they had...the others were very ticky tacky.

The punt for a safety. So many rules in sports are about intent. How can a guy possess the ball in the end zone, run multiple steps in an effort to clearly return it out of the end zone and be rewarded for a dumb decision getting an exemption for poor judgement? And the ball goes to the 20 versus being a safety? That's convoluted. If he falls on it to prevent the Gophers from recovering for it a touchdown...now I get it's a touchback. But no matter what if you clearly try to run it out of the end zone that should be a safety.

Baseball: An overthrow at first base and the base runner makes one clear step to advance to second but changes his mind...tag him and he's out. Basketball: were you trying to block the shot or
send a message by knocking someone to the floor...it is about intent whether it's a common foul or a flagrant foul. A team lost a state championship because a guy hung on the rim after a dunk and a technical was called. Did he hang on the rim to celebrate or protect himself? (Depending who you were rooting for it was 50/50 but the rule is intent, nonetheless.) The Michigan guy's intent was to go 108 yards for a touchdown.

 

[dannygopher9100]

Harbaugh is the new Bo Ryan of Big Ten football. I would look over at the Michigan sideline and he was always complaining about calls the whole game.